Common misconception or .....

[DrScott]

...or maybe I am just stupid. I put together a Traditions St. Louis Hawkins 50 caliber and on the first trip to the range with .49 lead balls and 0.015 lube patch I had such a hard time getting the ball all the way down to the powder. It was easy to start the ball but then took all my strength to finish - I thought the ramrod would break. I was cleaning after every shot thinking that fouling was the problem but it didn't really help. On the second trip a week later I had the idea to lift up slightly on the ramrod and sort of get a running start at the ball. It worked great and I didn't have to clean but every 10 shots or so. Eleven shots all on a pie plate at 100 yards - I was thrilled for a kit that was the cheapest one I could find. I went from thinking you were all nuts for shooting guns that were so hard to load to having more fun at the range than I've had in a long time. I think I see more black powder rifles in my future.

So is it considered "OK" to sort of punch the ball down the barrel rather than just using a smooth push?

 

[jtmattison]

Ramming the ball down could deform the ball and have a negative impact on your accuracy. A smooth continuous stroke is preferred.
Did you thoroughly clean the new bore to remove the packing grease before shooting it the first time? Most new barrels have a tough compound applied to them to inhibit rust.
I would try giving the bore a good scrubbing with a bore brush and brake cleaner or other solvent to see if it's dirty. If that's not the problem then you could try a .010 patch and see how it loads. You may need a lubed wad between patched ball and powder to prevent patch burn through.
Good luck.
:hatsoff:

HD

 

[bwhoffman]

Are you loading .490's or .495's?

490 and a lubed .015 patch should go in fairly well with little effort.

your barrel could also have some tooling marks, sharp edges or burrs,
I have found that a new barrel needs a good 100 plus shots run thru it before it starts to find home!

 

[Rebel]

Did you CLEAN all the factory Grease out of the barrel with some kind of solvent before you fired the gun for the first time? If not that stuff will cause a lot of problems. Easiest way is with a can of spray on carb. or brake parts cleaner and a bore brush, followed by patches.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

The gun should not be that hard to load. Sounds like the patch doesn't have enough lube. Try wetting a patch with spit.
Pletch

 

[bigdatab]

I had the same trouble with my lyman deerstalker in .50 and my plains pistol also in .50. If I use a .495 and .018 prelubed patch it's tough. If I use a .010 goes down no problem. If I use a .490 with a .015 or .018 also go down without much trouble. I was reading here on the forum that guys would shoot all day and hardly ever swab between shots, never happened for me till this very day. Put half a box of Hornady .495 with .010 patches through my plains pistol no swabing at all was quite suprised. This thing shoots better than me. Hope this will help some.

 

[DrScott]

Thanks for the suggestions. I did clean the barrel but not with a solvent like carb cleaner. I will give that a try.

thanks,
Scott

 

[Blizzard of '93]

might consider scrubbing the barrel with a 'patch' cut from a 3M handpad. fine grit. available at ACE hardware. that will slick that bore up.

 

[Zonie]

If you use a bore brush and it gets stuck, rotate the ramrod (or cleaning rod) clockwise until you feel the brush rotate.
Then repeat rotating it and apply a gentle upward pressure. This will allow the bristles to bend downward so the brush can be removed from the bore.
zonie

 

[50cal.cliff]

Shooting same gun try cleaning barrel thoroughly, solvent or brake cleaner. As soon as you are done running a bore brush down. Remeber right is tight, left is lose! When bore brush hits bottom turn rod to right so you don't lose it on the way up!
Wipe and neturalize any cleaner that got on outside of barrel, and oil the outside this will keep you from streaking the finish.
Then go back and wipe barrel clean and lightly oil.
It is possible you got a small barrel but I shoot a .490 W .18 TC prelubes. I have no problem once I short start. Use the hand over hand method, once I hit bottom I let rod bounce lightly2-3 times about an couple of inches, by holding finger over the end and guiding with the thumb and second finger. If you use the same powder and powder load you can put a mark on your rod to ensure you are seated each time.
I have shot a .495 ball with same patch. A little harder too do but works same way.
The only problem I ever had was last week and it was so hot I was pouring sweat! I couldn't hang on that rod that came with rifle. I am not sure if they are fiberglass but I have gone to a wood rod. I have yet to try it so will let you know how that goes!

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Here's another common misconception: whacking the ball down the bore will cause it to deform, and loose accuracy. This is :bull: . The most accurate ML in existance all use false muzzle extensions so as to accomodate LARGER than bore-size balls that need HAMMERED into the rifle! If smacking it with a rangerod and a hammer keeps it true, then whatever you can do to it will be of little consequence.

Others have said it before: shoot it in some more and get rid of the burrs in the bore. Use a range-rod to accomplish this task. Depending upon the actual bore diameter (did you measure it?), you should be able to use a .490 ball with a .020 patch. I currently use a .490 ball with a .018 pre-lubed pillow-ticking patch and this combo works great!

Shoot your rifle some more, then test it out to see what it likes. Let us all know of your progress.

Dave

 

[DVanVorous]

Here's another common misconception: whacking the ball down the bore will cause it to deform, and loose accuracy. This is :bull: . The most accurate ML in existance all use false muzzle extensions so as to accomodate LARGER than bore-size balls that need HAMMERED into the rifle! If smacking it with a rangerod and a hammer keeps it true, then whatever you can do to it will be of little consequence.

Others have said it before: shoot it in some more and get rid of the burrs in the bore. Use a range-rod to accomplish this task. Depending upon the actual bore diameter (did you measure it?), you should be able to use a .490 ball with a .020 patch. I currently use a .490 ball with a .018 pre-lubed pillow-ticking patch and this combo works great!

Shoot your rifle some more, then test it out to see what it likes. Let us all know of your progress.

Dave

Id agree with this...I run a .495 and a .02 patch in my Green Mt barrel which is actually loose according to Green Mt specs for what they bore and rifle at. My T/C uses a .495 and a .015 but only cuz its also vintage '76 and has had roughly 10000 rounds through it. Its been my observation that iffen things are tight its because I didn't swab properly after the last shot...This is particularly noticable-troublesome on low humidity days in my own experience, at which point Im a little more liberal with the spit to the point of sucking on the swabbing patches to keep them moister between rounds.

Some folks spritz their swab patches but sucking on them saves extra doodads in the bag... :grin:

Keep yer powder dry,

D.

 

[paulvallandigham]

You only are telling have the story. The other half is the FACT that we are talking about bouncing a flat head ramrod jag down on a round ball when its already seated on the powder charge. If the capacity of the chamber has been reduced because the shooter does not clean his barrel between shot, the location where the ball seats on the powder steadily moves forward. When shooter mark their ramrods, to indicate when the ball is fully seated on the powder, they begin pounding the nose of the ball with the ramrod to get it down to the mark. This flattens the face of the ball, which changes its resistance to wind, and causes a larger groups size.

The loading rods used by slug gun shooters, loading a conical bullet through a false muzzle are made with a concave jag that fits the bullet's OGIVE perfectly, purposely so that the nose of the bullet is not deformed, and the conical is held straight along its axis as it passes through the false muzzle. The false muzzle also have a tapered section that is wider than bore diameter, to allow the patching( almost always paper) to slowly and gradually grab the surface of the conical bullet as it passes through the tapered throat of the false muzzle. The use of a mallet is to allow the lubed paper patching to be seated in the rifling of the true barrel beyond the false muzzle, all the while the bullet is held perfectly straight in the false muzzle with that coned jag. The lubrication used on the paper allows the paper to stretch some as it conforms to the rifleing of the actual barrel. The bullet is NOT deformed.

And, as you can see, the two different projectiles, and loading methods are not the same.

 

[marwat06]

My experience has been the not all .490 or .495 roundballs are created equal or the right size. I normally use Hornady .490 balls and they go down very smoothly (no need to pound it down the barrel); however I ordered some .490 balls from another company and those I had to literally hammer down my barrel. Broke a ramrod in the process; wasn’t a total loss, those ball work great in my Plains Pistol. Go figure, I guess not all 50 cal barrels are the same size.

 

[d.thomson]

I have read that the chunck gun shooters somtimes use a mallet and a short starter to start there balls because they are so tight, and if this dosen't deform the ball I don't know what will.
Mabey someone with more experiance on the matter will chime in. F.K.

 

If it does deform the ball it evidently doesn't hurt accuracy any. These guys get some exceptional performance out of those rifles.

 

[DrScott]

I made another trip to the range and things are getting easier. The .490 balls with prelubed .015 patches worked better than the patches I lubed just before loading (also tried the spit patch but it was no better). To clarify things a little - I was not hammering the ball down the barrel and I would stop a few inches short of the powder and at that point I could finish with a slow push. I think the slick fiberglass rod was part of the problem and also the idea that the barrel just needed "breaking in" seems to be correct. After about 60 rounds now I can tell it is getting easier.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.

Scott

 

[bigdatab]

Hi Paul, The folks over at this site have done some experiments on this subject. You may have seen this before but if not you may find it of interest. Go to[url] ctmuzzleloaders.com[/url] Click on Experiments, then under Loading, loads and lubes click on How does load compression affect shooting.