• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades
  • Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Centre Fire Patent

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Still unanswered. What about it was "centre fire"? The percussion cap and nipple were being incorporated on guns as early as 1822. The Eley brothers added percussion caps to their sporting offerings in 1837. The Colt Paterson patent had "in-line" percussion nippples on the 1836 patent drawings.

Just trying to figure out what Mr. Bentley's patent added to existing technology, if anything.
I thought that I had explained both in written and images which show the action of the centre fire which have a direct fire straight to the centre of the charge instead of the downward principle
Has to the percussion cap this first appeared between 1810 and 1817 build by James Rowntree for Joshua Shaw before he emigrated to America in 1817 ,these caps were made of iron shaped like a top hat and held on the nipple by Rowntree's patent he later sold the patent of the percussion cap to Egg in 1822 who changed it from iron to copper .
Feltwad
 
Feltwad,
Can I ask regarding the one similar to my old gun, who was the retailer?
I have seen Jackson and this Winton I attached photo of.
there will be others.
When looking down the barrels, the pin of light is seen right in the middle of the barrel. True central fire!

Those locks on yours would take a lot of making!!
Top flight job.
The gun similar to one in your image is by G.Hewson of Newark image enclosed
Feltwad
100_4758.JPG
 
I thought that I had explained both in written and images which show the action of the centre fire which have a direct fire straight to the centre of the charge instead of the downward principle
Has to the percussion cap this first appeared between 1810 and 1817 build by James Rowntree for Joshua Shaw before he emigrated to America in 1817 ,these caps were made of iron shaped like a top hat and held on the nipple by Rowntree's patent he later sold the patent of the percussion cap to Egg in 1822 who changed it from iron to copper .
Feltwad
well no explanation above that response. And as I thought, it was not new, as the concept was already in use in other firearms elsewhere. Numerous firearms had nipples placed to inject fire directly into the charge. whether from the rear , the top. the side or even the up from the bottom. Colt's patent of 1836, shows the inline nipple principle to inject fire into the center of the charge.
 
well no explanation above that response. And as I thought, it was not new, as the concept was already in use in other firearms elsewhere. Numerous firearms had nipples placed to inject fire directly into the charge. whether from the rear , the top. the side or even the up from the bottom. Colt's patent of 1836, shows the inline nipple principle to inject fire into the center of the charge.
I am sure that I did not say that the Bentleys centre fire was a new type of ignition using the percussion cap. maybe I should have stated it was a example has you said there were several versions which included different English makers
Feltwad
 
The gun similar to one in your image is by G.Hewson of Newark image enclosed
FeltwadView attachment 188513
Thanks for posting, very unusual trigger guard on that double !!
I one had a .58 cal, English half stock sporting rifle that I hunted & competed with that had an identical style trigger guard except it had a sling-swivel attached to the bottom of it's flat side.
The large trigger guard style was ideal for hunting big game in Idaho's steep snow covered mountains.
Relic shooter
 
Need better pictures of the barrel breech. From what I see of the breech when enlarging the top photo, the nipples are merely positioned to inject fire into the center of the breech instead of the upper quadrant like most percussion guns.

What he may call "centerfire" in his patent may be nothing like what we envision as centerfire today For over a century American made percussion caps were labeled as "Center Fire" or Central Fire". An old gunsmith explained to me years ago, that they were called centerfire because the ignition fire goes through a hole in the center of the nipple. Whether that is true, who knows. Some of the early percussion guns used brass plungers with an end coated with fulminate, that struck an internal anvil another percussion system used a tiny folded envelope of fulminate with a tube attacked. the tube was to be placed through a touch hole and when struck, the fire from the envelope was to be forced through the tube in the touch hole to ignite the powder. Then there was the Draper Cartridge which was a centerfire, percussion breech loading cartridge. It had a heavy base with a percussion nipple and a cap would be placed on that nipple and struck by a centerfire rifle firing pin to ignite. Morris primed cartridges had a washer with holes in it preed into the inside of the thin balloon head cartridge. The cartridge could be ignited either by a rim fire striker or a center fire striker.

What was the date of the patent? What about it made it centerfire? If it was merely the placement of the nipples, Colt's revolvers also did that.

More information please.
Nowadays I believe most people would think centerfire with a percussion firearm would be taken to mean center of bore, But quite often reading very olde descriptions we as contemporary english users are at some loss as to exactly what was ment by the lexicon of the time.
Thank you for the information.

Buzz
 

Latest posts

Back
Top