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Bum mold
- Thread starter bang
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Cruzatte
50 Cal.
Reading this thread got me curious to find out what I had in stock. So I selected two balls out of the bunch at random. First one was .529. The second one was .531. These balls were listed as hand cast by TOTW. I found the variance to be so slight as to be negligible. I guess it happens all the time.
It is doubtful that Lee cut the mold the wrong size. After they cut the mold they put a polished carbide ball of exact size in the mold and bring the halves together in a hydrolic press.
They may use Lyman #2 alloy to give the as cast diameter. It casts slightly smaller than pure lead.
Using thin patches will cause them to burn through in the middle. Bad.... A thin patch, say under 0.010" is asking for trouble. I have had no success with thin patches. If you want to experiment with them put a wad under the ball/patch.
I tend toward smaller balls and thicker patches. The patches will be tougher, hold more lube, and be more forgiving to load. They will be less likely to have have damaging blow by. I have shot good groups with smaller balls and denim (0.032") patches but never with patches under 0.010"
The reason that the common balls/ patches for 50 is 0.490" and the patches sold in bulk are about 0.015", is because it works for almost everyone, at least reasonably well.
They may use Lyman #2 alloy to give the as cast diameter. It casts slightly smaller than pure lead.
Using thin patches will cause them to burn through in the middle. Bad.... A thin patch, say under 0.010" is asking for trouble. I have had no success with thin patches. If you want to experiment with them put a wad under the ball/patch.
I tend toward smaller balls and thicker patches. The patches will be tougher, hold more lube, and be more forgiving to load. They will be less likely to have have damaging blow by. I have shot good groups with smaller balls and denim (0.032") patches but never with patches under 0.010"
The reason that the common balls/ patches for 50 is 0.490" and the patches sold in bulk are about 0.015", is because it works for almost everyone, at least reasonably well.
Cast some 440s and 490s. They too varied a bit so normal is my decision. I test fired 440 in 45cal,measures 456, with 2 010 patches. Patch against powder did not burn as bad. 2nd test I shot through a piece of pine 1x. Patch against ball was fried doughnut. Might be because of the wood, not sure. First was in moist dirt and I'm sure it cooled quickly. 2nd was flung into the air.
Also while cleaning I noticed some roughness in the barrel and brown on patch. Suspect some rust. Patch was somewhat ragged. Ran steelwool with oil till patch came out clean and ran smooth. Think some of problem was patch being ragged on ram. Haven't had chance to try again but feel sure patch integrity upon ram will be a lot better now. Have yet to test my 50, measures 503, with 2 010s yet but know the barrel is smooth on ram. Also changing patch lube to a higher temp lube.
Test fired my 50 with 490 and 2 010s.
Left against ball. Right against powder.
Patch imprint evidence on ball.
The raggeded almost cut out of the right patch is what has me puzzled. It rammed smooth. No grating feel. Have some 020 on the way. Perhaps that will eliminate the ragged issue being one patch.
At least I got the charing eliminated.
Left against ball. Right against powder.
Patch imprint evidence on ball.
The raggeded almost cut out of the right patch is what has me puzzled. It rammed smooth. No grating feel. Have some 020 on the way. Perhaps that will eliminate the ragged issue being one patch.
At least I got the charing eliminated.
I watch a friend wang his ramrod against the ball and ask him why. He uses a small ball and real thin patch you could start with your tongue. He says it gets hard to load but will not get rid of the Crisco.
It gets scary since you can ignite a charge by beating it. Even smokeless can go off. Some time ago a BR shooter got a live round stuck so he took it to the bench, pulled the bolt and slung the rod against the bullet. It went off and the empty case killed his wife.
Use steady pressure to seat a ball. I made a wood push tool with a strong spring inside I put on the ramrod to seat with the same pressure.
The molds I had the most trouble with were Lyman for under size. RB seemed to be OK but many BP bullet molds were too small. Cherries get dull so they get them sharpened. A cherry can go for near $300 and I make my own for 41 cents each. What I have not done is to make a swing cutter for round balls. Lee molds are cheap enough. I use a lot of Lee products and only had to send one mold back.
From years and years of competition I found if you seat with the exact compression others will drool over your accuracy. Very important if you use Pyrodex but the first thing when I buy a new jug of it, I screen it to get rid of the dust from shipping. If you don't and get near the bottom of the jug, things change for the worst. Some fines in the bottom look like FFFFFFFG.
It gets scary since you can ignite a charge by beating it. Even smokeless can go off. Some time ago a BR shooter got a live round stuck so he took it to the bench, pulled the bolt and slung the rod against the bullet. It went off and the empty case killed his wife.
Use steady pressure to seat a ball. I made a wood push tool with a strong spring inside I put on the ramrod to seat with the same pressure.
The molds I had the most trouble with were Lyman for under size. RB seemed to be OK but many BP bullet molds were too small. Cherries get dull so they get them sharpened. A cherry can go for near $300 and I make my own for 41 cents each. What I have not done is to make a swing cutter for round balls. Lee molds are cheap enough. I use a lot of Lee products and only had to send one mold back.
From years and years of competition I found if you seat with the exact compression others will drool over your accuracy. Very important if you use Pyrodex but the first thing when I buy a new jug of it, I screen it to get rid of the dust from shipping. If you don't and get near the bottom of the jug, things change for the worst. Some fines in the bottom look like FFFFFFFG.
That may be (sorta) true. BUT, at one time I discovered they were shipping moulds a size other than marked. I got one. It is also the only time I have gotten prompt, courteous action from their customer service department. The moulds and even the boxes were incorrectly marked. And vendors like TOW, Midway, etc. advertised the marked (incorrect) size. They did fix the issue. 'Stuff' happens.
Not so. Other factors, mostly blow-by causes patch burning. My first TC (a not really a hawken-hawken) in .45 cal. had very shallow rifling. After much experimenting I ended up using a tight ball and very thin patching. The material was airplane cloth. (no longer available) It was very tough stuff and made great patching. Super thin and never a burn through problem.
Lee mold.
That says everything right there. Lee's QC can be less than stellar but you're getting what you paid for. If you want it dead on, buy from a custom mold maker who will test it before shipping. Yeah it costs more but it's a one time expense for an accurate product that will deliver for years to come.
That says everything right there. Lee's QC can be less than stellar but you're getting what you paid for. If you want it dead on, buy from a custom mold maker who will test it before shipping. Yeah it costs more but it's a one time expense for an accurate product that will deliver for years to come.
NOT the patch thickness but the seal and fit. As a ball gets larger the patch will get thinner and will not burn if you still seal.
Best ML's were cut rifled with deeper grooves but as soon as a button rifled barrel was made with .003" grooves, things changed to smaller balls. They will work with fit. Some never will though. It is still work to find a combination.
The large problem is a new fella buys a gun with load info and is told the ball size but no patch size so he is floating in the forbidden zone. Something you don't want to see will bite your butt. I think TC was the first to button rifle. First TC's were so accurate that 5 shots were in one hole at 50 yards but it changed and I have shot many for friends that even a moon rocket would fail. The easy load muzzle the worst. I have built many custom Lyman kits of the GPR that had such great barrels that nothing else was as good. Now they offer the fast twist sabot rifling---Not in my life time.
