American Pioneer Powder Velocity

[Landngroove]

Have there been any chronographed results of American Pioneer Powder, compared to Goex, or Pyrodex? I have been using A.P.P. in some of my muzzleloaders, and it seems that it doesn't have the recoil, or muzzle noise, that Goex, or Pyrodex has. I have no way to tell velocity, but was wondering if there were any data on this.

 

[Markwhiz]

When I've shot APP or CleanShot in the past...........I found that I needed about 10gr more to equal a Pyro RS load as far as accuracy and point of impact was concerned.

 

[Tahquamenon]

I believe APP to be much less powerful than everything else I've ever shot. Plus if it gets damp, it's worthless.

I've shot a couple of pounds of APP and found it to be overall, quite anemic and inconsistent.

My testing is rather simple:
Equal amount of volume with APP compared to everything else I've tried (Swiss & GOEX BP, 777, Pyrodex RS & P, BM'3) results in a significantly lower point of impact in every case.

:results: :m2c:

 

[montanadan]

Landngroove- APP powder is probably one the hardest SUB's,to shoot in muzzeloaders. First of all it does not measure anywhere close(volume to volume) with any of the other Sub's or real B/P for that matter. App is very coarse in granulation and is not very dense. When you shoot 80grns of 3fg Goex(by volume) and without changing your powder measure,load 80grns of 3fg of APP the actual charge of APP is only 68grns. Easy way to check this is weigh 80grns. of goex(on a scale) then weigh 80grns of 3fg APP, the difference is suprising. Do equal charges and I think you will find that is a lot more powerful.Yes, APP is very Hygroscopic,absorbs moisture,Probably not the best powder for hunting(especially you guys back East)with high humidty. Powder is generally sold by the pound,APP has more grains in a pound than ,Pyrodex,T-7,and Goex. So when you increase your volume charge,you are not really using more.I have shot over 20lbs. of APP and I like it, but I do not think this powder is "User" friendly,takes some effort to get it to shoot well in muzzleloaders. Respectfully Montanadan

 

[Tahquamenon]

:agree:

I'll also add that APP is like a sponge at absorbing moisture.

 

[Landngroove]

Hey, thanks for all the input. I agree, it seems that I need heavier charges of APP, than Goex, or Pyrodex, to get that same "feel". I generally use APP FFFG in my percussions, and I do like the way it ignites, and is less fouling. I have used 100 grains of APP FFFG in my Lyman Deerstalker, .54 percussion, with good results. I would not use that much, if it was Goex FFFG, as in my opinion it would be an overcharge. I have used APP FFG in my inlines, but again, seems like I have to use heavier charges. All this being said, I guess it just takes working up a load, for your muzzleloader from the low end, up. Maybe I have been lucky, but I have not had any moisture problems with it. It will be interesting to see what Goex Pinnacle is like, and how it compares to APP. Hopefully my local gunshop will be getting some in soon!

 

[montanadan]

Landngroove-I think there maybe a 'Love-Hate' relationship going with Pinnacle powder as well.3fg in Pinnacle is still very coarse compared to B/P,T-7,or even Pyrodex. You are not going to get the same load with a volume to volume comparisons. Pinnacle powder is not the same as APP,flash point for Pinnacle is much lower,Pinnacle powder contains real charcoal.Pinnacle powder is 'NOT' hygroscopic, so it may be a better choice for those living in high humidity climates. App is very lube sensitive,meaning you use to much,it will actually absorb the lube,reducing the effectivness of the powder.I suspect that Pinnacle will not be as sensitive,that remains to seen. Pinnacle again is not very dense,but is more dense than APP. I think for muzzeloading I would stay with 3fg granulation, especially for patched round ball. Both APP and T-7 are very compression sensitive(APP does not like to admit it)T-7 sort of beats around the bush(read the fine print at Hodgons') web-site.Well I am going to slip into my NOMEX uderwear,be safe good shooting,Respectfuuly Montanadan

 

[Landngroove]

montanadan: Thanks for the info. You are right about APP, and lubes. The instructions with APP, say " Use No Lubes, and Seat Powder Firmly". Target shooting with a patched round ball, with a prelubed patch doesn't seem to affect it. Probably because I'm shooting immediatly after loading. Hunting with it with a prelubed patch, or a lubed Maxiball, may be another story. Do you know if Pinnacle says not to lube? When Pinnacle does become available here, I will be trying FFFG.

 

[montanadan]

Landngroove- I shot some Pinnacle(3fg) in my 50 caplock,yesterday. I now, only use Stumpkillers liquid Moose stuff,for patch lube. When shooting the 'SUB' powders,the patches are lubed to where they are just damp.With APP and PInnacle powder just use regular caps,CCI#11,is what I used yesterday. Both powders shot well,APP leaves gray-like residue,Pinnacle leaves lighter color.Both clean up with plain water,and you can rinse your patches and re-use. The only differnce I noticed,APP has a much sharper recoil,and Pinnacle seems more like real B/P.I did not use my 'Chrono'(it was killed by a .416 Rigby,and is still dead). With Pinnacle,I loaded 85grns(by volume),slobbered the patch with Stump's moose juice,left it loaded for five minutes,capped,fired no problem. I would strongly advise NOT doing this with APP.The Pinnacle powder works in FLintlocks,APP DOES NOT. Both loads shot point of aim at 100yds,off hand my normal score,38-41. Both powders did this consistently(when I did my part).Hope this helps...Respecfully Montanadan..(I have spent the last 6mos.practicing the 100 off hand,I still really suck)