A couple more newbie shotgun questions

[tamara]

Well, I got out shooting today, beautiful day!

I upped my load to 1oz (by volume) Pyrodex RS and 1-1/8oz of #6 shot. I did everything else the same, and my patterns turned out much, much better! Before 1/1oz were blown at twenty yards. Today even the IC was looking deadly at 40 yards. :applause: So a big thank you! to all you guys who helped me with my patterning questions! :bow:

However, I had a record number of misfires. I didn't do anything different than normal during the loading procedure, except that I first snapped 3 caps instead of just two on each barrel. I am going to buy some Goex or Swiss pronto, and I've got some Hot Shot nipples on order.

I haven't been cleaning before I shoot, just ran a couple dry patches before loading. Could that just be pushing lube down into the breech?

I don't know why I'm getting so many misfires. I'm using #11 CCI magnum caps, and when I load I can hear the air hissing out of the nipple, so I know it isn't obstructed. Also, it is desert here and it was about 30-35 degrees today. Any ideas?

Second question: it is apparent that neither barrel shoots right where you put the bead. The right consistently shoots slightly right and low, while the left shoots consistently slightly left and high. This is at 30-40 yards. I can live with it, but I was wondering if there is anything that can be done about it?

 

[Leatherbark]

You would'nt by any chance be using a Bronze bore brush at various times would you? My old New Englander would misfire every time I brushed the barrels to make loading easier.. I started turning the gun upside down after that and pouring out the dry fouling. Now that Pyrodex can be hard to light at times. I figure your Pedersoli has patent breech's so a person has to be sure that the Pyrodex RS is not bridging at times in the powder chamber and not reaching the nipple..........So if you have been cleaning between shot strings there might be MUD in your powder chambers. I dont know what size the patent breech powder chamber on the Pedersoli is, but you might be able to figure out what size brush to get down in there to brush it out...........If Its not gobbed off and Bridging of the Pyrodex RS is causing your misfires, then as your pouring powder ,pour slowly and bounce the gun up and down on the ground to get the powder to the nipple..........Take a small piece of carpet to load with at the range to keep from buggering up your buttplate...........Misfires in percussion guns are caused by one thing.......There aint no powder under the nipple..............Good luck Tamara....................Bob

 

[BrownBear]

Interesting that you weren't getting so many misfires before upping the powder charge. Leatherbark is right that somehow fouling has to be getting between your nipple and the powder charge, but I've got no idea how that would happen with more powder when it didn't with less.

No experience with the Pedersoli, but many years shooting the Navy Arms 12 I used to have. No matter what I stuffed down it or how many shots between cleaning the bores, I never had trouble with misfires. It got to the point that I felt it was as reliable as a cartridge gun.

Keep pecking away at the problem, because that's what you want in a field gun. The less messing around, the more time you get to hunt.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Check the contact between the face of the hammers, and your nipples. Put marking dye, lipstick, on the stop edge of each nipple, and lower the hammer down to mark the face. Then cock the hammers back so you can see them, and look at the rings. If they are not complete, that is, cover 360 degrees, and of even thickness, that can account for the misfires. The longer you shoot, the more each nipple will be mishapened by hammer blows, and the more often that barrel will misfire.

The cure is to get a Dremel like tool, with a small grinding bit, and grind away the high surfaces of the hammer, until you do get a complete ring. When I think I have it, I like to fold over a couple of layers of paper towel, put them on the nipple, and drop the hammer. You should have what looks almost like a paper punched hole in the toweling, if the hammer face is making full contact. Do this grinding and fitting of each hammer with a new nipple under each, and that will contribute to much longer nipple life for your gun.


The use of any sub can also contribute to misfires, as they are hard to burn, but I suspect its your loading and cleaning procedures that are at fault. The cleaning jag you use needs to be stepped, with each band being smaller behind the head. That give the cotton patching a place to go into and hold onto the crud you want and need to pull out of the gun. The patch has to fit just tight enough that you feel resistence in the barrel as you rund the patch down the barrel from the air, which has only the nipple channel to go out of to escape. Alway remove spent caps and put the hammers on half cock when cleaning and reloading. Keep an eye on that nipple as you drive a patch down the barrel. You should see smoke, and powder residue coming out it, and the nipple will have a thin layer of white residue on it as the result of this action. Always dry the barrel before putting new powder charges in it. Now, you can't have too tight a jag if you want to use it to dry the barrel. Getting a jag with a dry patch on it stuck in the barrel can be a huge problem. NEVER DOUBLE DRY PATCH YOUR BARREL. I am finding that using a bronzed bore brush to run a dry patch down my shotgun barrels is the best and safest way to cry them out and get the patch back out. However, I am going to fiddle with my cleaning jag, by reducing its diameter a few thousands of an inch by putting it into a hand drill and using a file and emery cloth to reduce the brass. That should allow me to use the jag for all the cleaning and drying without fear of getting that patch stuck.

You can produce a sizeable number of clinkers, particularly if you are not cleaning between every shot. If this is your cleaning procedure, than by all means upend the barrel and pour those large clinkers out the barrel, so they don't plug up a flash channel. YOu have to worry about pushing moisture, from a too damp cleaning patch, and, I suppose, lube, into that flash channel, too. Don't overdo the lube or spit or cleaning fluid you use to clean the barrel between shots. That gets more shooters into misfire trouble than anything else they do.

Also understand that your cleaning technique has to change based on the weather. If its raining out, you may have to run more than one dry patch down the barrel between shots to really dry it out. You may have to fire off caps on an emply barrel to burn any remaining moisture or crud out of the flash channel. The same goes for hot weather and high humidity. If you are shooting in below freezing temperatures, you probably will be better servied using alcohol to wet that patch to clean the barrel between shots than using spit, or any water-based cleaning solution.

What is hard for new shooters to understand that there is no " One Way " to clean a gun in every circumstance, and that even different guns, and different jags and patches will make a difference. All you can do is learn what works in your gun, and do what is necessary to clean that same gun in all the seasons and weather conditions through the year. I actually knew shooters who would not fire their guns off if it was below freezing, and would not attend a club shoot during our winters. When we showed them how to manage their guns in cold temperatures, they began coming out to our New Year's Day shoot, and it was, at one time, the most attended shooting event of the year!

Keep us posted as to your progress. You have already been given some great advice on cleaning. Try each out, and then mine, and let us know what seems to work best for you.

 

[tamara]

Thank you guys for all the suggestions!

I am not using a brass brush, nor do I swab/clean or anything between shots. I use pre-lubed felt wonder wads which really seem to keep the bore clean.

My mom is a nurse (Yes! I HAVE hugged a nurse today!), so I borrowed her little light thing that you use to look in people's ears and noses.

I looked in the bores, and they look bright and shiney except right at the end. It is hard to tell looking straight down, but it does look like a patent breech, and there is some grime in there. However, the nipple holes are almost in line with the powder, and they are clear.

Also, the hole in the left bore looks centered in the bore. The hole in the right does not. It looks closer to the midline / rib.

I think I might have found the problem, which I was blaming on the nipples. I get probably about twice as many misfires in the left bore as in the right.

When I look at the nipple holes, I see a "ridge" of metal that forms a half-moon shape on the outer edge of the hole. The left one appears to jut out futher into the hole than the right, and it has a little real shiney spot, probably right where the little hole is in the bottom of the nipple. The right one does not have this.

I tried to take some pics. Hopefully you can see what I'm talking about.

What, if any function do these ridges have? My instinct is to whip out the needle files and take off a little of each ridge, especially the left.

What do you think?

Boy that camera flash really shows I have a couple spots of rust! I'll take care of it!

 

[ffffg]

"I looked in the bores, and they look bright and shiney except right at the end." it looks like you could be running out of lube.. try adding another lubed wad or add some more lube under the lubed wad in your load.. see if this makes it shiny to the end.. the end of the bore (muzzel) is key in accuracy with rifles and great patterns with a shotgun.. down bore you will need to keep up with lead removeal. gets some hoppes number 9 nitro solvent and give each bore 25 strokes with a bronze brush each time you clean or your patters will start to go haywire again.. this will be evident by your patterns shifting impact point to a different spot each time out.. i wouldnt do work like this( filing inside of nippel thread area) without an experianced gunsmith looking at it.. id have him do it.. i have a pedersoli 10 gauge and ive shot a pound a day in the spring a couple days a week practicing for competiton and dont remember any misfires (many years ago).. so i believe it will be able to be fixed, but it must be done properly... :grin: dave.