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Are cap rakes really necessary or a solution in search of any real problem ?

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French Colonial said:
I have posted this before..

I have a Uberti 1851 navy I bought a couple of years ago now, right from Dixie gun works, never have had a cap jam or any other issues and shoots really well. I guess some of you have bought lemons or just like modifying things.

I am going to leave it alone and just keep shooting it.
Click to expand...

Well there ya go, living proof that there are no problems whatsoever with any of these revolvers.
( just a heads up though, your arbor is short)
 
Here's a couple more Mike did and a Walker I bought from Jackrabbit already done by him!

1712981695172.png

1712981744051.png

1712982084541.png
 
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M. De Land said:
I'm going to go with a shield on the Walker but haven't as yet warmed up to the need for a rake ! I've got and idea I want to try out as a different means of shield purchase to the lower hammer arm face not liking the cross cut method. If it pans out I'll share it .
Click to expand...
I got the shield on the Walker today. I found a thin strip of brass and copied Mikes design but not liking the cross cut in the hammer purchase I attached mine with low temp silver solder sweat joint.
I did try to pry up the shield from both corners of the sweat joint and it held solid so we'll see if it does over time and use. It sure seals up the hammer mortise top to bottom with that hook on the end.
I put the action back together and all seems to function smoothly.
I also remembered to take a photo of the sear lift in the full cock notch.
Tomorrow I think I'll go to work on the loading lever latch I worked up on a piece of cardboard.
I'll do the front sight last to get it positioned as best I can with the lever catch tower to balance the profile. This means two dovetail cuts, one over the other in the barrel near the muzzle. I would prefer to offset them a bit but will have to wait and see how it looks.
 

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M. De Land said:
I got the shield on the Walker today. I found a thin strip of brass and copied Mikes design but not liking the cross cut in the hammer purchase I attached mine with low temp silver solder sweat joint.
I did try to pry up the shield from both corners of the sweat joint and it held solid so we'll see if it does over time and use. It sure seals up the hammer mortise top to bottom with that hook on the end.
I put the action back together and all seems to function smoothly.
I also remembered to take a photo of the sear lift in the full cock notch.
Tomorrow I think I'll go to work on the loading lever latch I worked up on a piece of cardboard.
I'll do the front sight last to get it positioned as best I can with the lever catch tower to balance the profile. This means two dovetail cuts, one over the other in the barrel near the muzzle. I would prefer to offset them a bit but will have to wait and see how it looks.
Click to expand...
I really like your idea. If it holds up I might just have to try it. Could you add a photo of the hammer side view withe the shield installed next time you have the gun apart?
 
Snooterpup said:
I really like your idea. If it holds up I might just have to try it. Could you add a photo of the hammer side view withe the shield installed next time you have the gun apart?
Click to expand...
When figuring out the length to make the shield I noticed where the nose of the trigger was riding up past the half cock notch on the hammer and made the end of the hook/curl stop just slightly above that so there would be no trigger interference. It worked out perfectly as the top of the hook/curl in the shield seals off against the top edge (inside swing radius) of the hammer clearance cut in the lower frame. It should bring out any fouling debris or cap fragments very efficiently if it works as planned.
On the width I made it just a schosh slimmer than the hammer mortise so as not to impede the hammer swing.
Be careful to not use any more heat than necessary to get a solid sweat joint with low temp silver solder. I used a magnet on the off side of the hammer as a straight edge to keep the shield aligned while sweating it on being held by the hammer spur in a small machinist vice. When I got the joint fluxed with the Force 44 low temp silver solder and sandwiched I put a small section of brass rod on top of the joint so the weight would hold/pull the joint together while being heated.
It wouldn't hurt to add some heat control past to the cock notches and hammer cam to maintain their hardness.
I think this shield of Mike's helps keep most of the cap exhaust following down the inside of the hammer profile and into the lock works out as well as any cap hulls that fall back into it.
I love picking up great ideas from others, it's like finding a gold nugget in a stream bed that you didn't have to work for ! 😄
 
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M. De Land said:
When figuring out the length to make the shield I noticed where the nose of the trigger was riding up past the half cock notch on the hammer and made the end of the hook/curl stop just slightly above that so there would be no trigger interference. It worked out perfectly as the top of the hook/curl in the shield seals off against the top edge (inside swing radius) of the hammer clearance cut in the lower frame. It should bring out any fouling debris or cap fragments very efficiently if it works as planned.
On the width I made it just a schosh slimmer than the hammer mortise so as not to impede the hammer swing.
Be careful to not use any more heat than necessary to get a solid sweat joint with low temp silver solder. I used a magnet on the off side of the hammer as a straight edge to keep the shield aligned while sweating it on being held by the hammer spur in a small machinist vice. When I got the joint fluxed with the Force 44 low temp silver solder and sandwiched I put a small section of brass rod on top of the joint so the weight would hold/pull the joint together while being heated.
It wouldn't hurt to add some heat control past to the cock notches and hammer cam to maintain their hardness.
I think this shield of Mike's helps keep most of the cap exhaust following down the inside of the hammer profile and into the lock works out as well as any cap hulls that fall back into it.
I love picking up great ideas from others, it's like finding a gold nugget in a stream bed that you didn't have to work for ! 😄
Click to expand...
A tip on not getting to much heat on the hammer components to anneal/soften them is dip the flame unto the sweat joint area in short applications until you see the solder liquefy and suck together. Don't just leave the sweating/soldering joint in the flame continually. I used a regular propane torch which is a bit on the large side but if used as described will work perfectly without over heating the hammer components.
A properly applied sweat joint of silver solder is approaching the strength of a braze weld and I expect this method of shield attachment to be permanent but time and use will surely tell the tale !
 
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M. De Land said:
I got the shield on the Walker today. I found a thin strip of brass and copied Mikes design but not liking the cross cut in the hammer purchase I attached mine with low temp silver solder sweat joint.
I did try to pry up the shield from both corners of the sweat joint and it held solid so we'll see if it does over time and use. It sure seals up the hammer mortise top to bottom with that hook on the end.
I put the action back together and all seems to function smoothly.
I also remembered to take a photo of the sear lift in the full cock notch.
Tomorrow I think I'll go to work on the loading lever latch I worked up on a piece of cardboard.
I'll do the front sight last to get it positioned as best I can with the lever catch tower to balance the profile. This means two dovetail cuts, one over the other in the barrel near the muzzle. I would prefer to offset them a bit but will have to wait and see how it looks.
Click to expand...
You're catching on, my friend.
 
CaptainKirk said:
You're catching on, my friend.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that shield idea of Mike's is a good - un, especially on the Walker that has a hammer mortise as big as Martha Ray's mouth ! I don't expect any one under 70 to get that.
The sweat joint purchase makes it slick to clean up if it holds up as it should and doesn't weaken the hammer with a cross cut through the case that I suspect may eventually cause a fatigue crack!
 
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M. De Land said:
Yeah, that shield idea of Mike's is a good - un, especially on the Walker that has a hammer mortise as big as Martha Ray's mouth ! I don't expect any one under 70 to get that.
The sweat joint purchase makes it slick to clean up if it holds up as it should and doesn't weaken the hammer with a cross cut through the case that I suspect may eventually cause a fatigue crack!
Click to expand...


Well, just noticed this. Glad you like the shield, but to keep harping on a "defect" that doesn't exist is a little comical. You see, there about a 700 revolvers with this mod ( including all mine ) in use. Many of these revolvers are competition revolvers and there's not been one "failure" so . . . These hammers are through hardened btw.

One of the main features of my action shield is that it is easily removable should one want to for cleaning. I don't have any problem with the soldering aspect of yours but, as you mentioned, my way is definitely faster and I don't have to deal with the heating aspect, solder supply, and Flux.
I'll stick with what has worked for the last 6 years.

Mike
 
45D said:
Well, just noticed this. Glad you like the shield, but to keep harping on a "defect" that doesn't exist is a little comical. You see, there about a 700 revolvers with this mod ( including all mine ) in use. Many of these revolvers are competition revolvers and there's not been one "failure" so . . . These hammers are through hardened btw.

One of the main features of my action shield is that it is easily removable should one want to for cleaning. I don't have any problem with the soldering aspect of yours but, as you mentioned, my way is definitely faster and I don't have to deal with the heating aspect, solder supply, and Flux.
I'll stick with what has worked for the last 6 years.

Mike
Click to expand...
I heard you say that before about through hardened but don't think that's correct but as I've not cut into one I can't say positively and they are case colored and I believe made of 8620 equivalent case harden-able steel alloy.
If it is 8620 or equivalent than it is designed for case hardening (carbon infusion) not through hardening at up to a depth of .050 if held to 1700 F. for 4 hours before the quench. It is very nearly impossible to get good case color with charcoal much over 1400 F and water quench . Deep case usually does not produce good color but a drab gray and is not quenched in water but oil because of it's tendency to crack at the high heat required for a deep case.
One can case with cyanide but Uberti colors are not consistent with this method as far as I can tell at this point in understanding of the process. Early Stevens case colors are a good example of cyanide casing.
I think the potential for fatigue cracking in the inside neck area weakened by cross cutting into a drilled purchase hole, over time, is still present and wither cased or through hardened makes little difference.
The reason I hold with this thinking is that most open top percussion revolvers impact the frame mid curve in the hammer neck to arrest the nose hitting on the nipples with full force and this impact area is above the cross cut for the shield fold which is stressing through the cross cut located where the hammer body narrows into the neck.
I don't see any need to ever remove the shield from the hammer for cleaning as there is no cross cut fold opening for fouling or cap refuse to fall into.
Also it took maybe 15 minutes to sweat on the shield to the removed and stripped hammer and I'd never done it before so if it holds up it will be a good purchase alternative that's easy to do and to keep clean.
Pay attention to when the solder melts and apply the heat in/at intervals and there will be no danger of softening adjacent parts that need to stay hard. Also for extra heat protection simply apply a bit of heat control paste on the cam and cocking notches.
 
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