Any idea what this is?

Clark Badgett said:

I’m still leaning towards an altered French fowler. I also think the original sideplate and inlet were done away with.

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It’s not French, it’s American.
The checkering, the two piece side plate washers.....overall shape.....
Now it’s possible it could be an Anglo-Belgian import but I strongly lean on it being an American piece.
The barrel is fascinating octagonal that transitions to round..... very interesting.

Basically it’s 1812 period.
New England, Massachusetts is not my field of experience.
I do know that Massachusetts had requirements for militia guns well into the 19th Century.

On an unrelated note.....
There was strong talk of Massachusetts and the other New England states seceding from the union during the War of 1812.

azmntman said:

Thats it! It's a 1984 ere CVA frontier that someone used PYRODEX in LOLOLOL. Sorry

Its cool as heck. I would clean it up and see whats left.

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I believe the lock is legit but it was not the lock this gun was made with.
That lock is a later import “hardware store” lock. 1830s????
Sometimes these are called “Maslins”.....
CVA and Dixie....folks like that, reproduced parts and locks like this.

It was these repro parts that were used by the hundreds??????, to “ poorly convert many “flintlock” back to flint.
Most of these were never flint to begin with.

Anyway the lock is original but not to that gun.

OldRust said:

@2 shots Thanks for sharing. That one really makes me drool ! Yea, I probably need help. I do not have the expertise that some folks here on the forum do to help you ID it, but I can tell you that P.A.& S. Small had a hardware store in York, PA from1830 into the 1900's. In 1860 the store was at the York City square. No doubt where your lock came from. The P.A.& S. Small percussion locks that I have are pretty respectable for quality. Not fine English locks but not bad.

Thanks,
O.R.

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Thank you @dan_1 for posting this. That was a late-night reply for me.

Thanks,
O.R.

OldRust said:

Thank you @dan_1 for posting this. That was a late-night reply for me.

Thanks,
O.R.

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I'm really enjoying this thread as well. There is a gunsmith nearby who used to build new muzzleloaders. Now he just works on Parker shotguns. I'm going to see if I can get him to look at it and give me a price to re stock the pieces if the barrel is still good.

I've just recently gone through the sameprocess withsomethingfromthe late 1870s. A friend of mine bought what he thought was an old Martini rifle. The writing on it was unusual and one of the folks I worked with was able to read the writing. We found it predated the Martini, was made in Nepal and was serial number 78 our of 900 rifles made on that design.

Kewell stuffs!

dan_1 said:

I'm really enjoying this thread as well. There is a gunsmith nearby who used to build new muzzleloaders. Now he just works on Parker shotguns. I'm going to see if I can get him to look at it and give me a price to re stock the pieces if the barrel is still good.

I've just recently gone through the sameprocess withsomethingfromthe late 1870s. A friend of mine bought what he thought was an old Martini rifle. The writing on it was unusual and one of the folks I worked with was able to read the writing. We found it predated the Martini, was made in Nepal and was serial number 78 our of 900 rifles made on that design.

Kewell stuffs!

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Can you post a picture of the stock lined up properly as it would be if it wasn’t broken at the lock area?

I have never seen a "hexigon" gun barrel breech , only round , or octagon. Hex. , would be a first.

How's this? Does it show what you want to see?

Good job with the photos in post #47.

dan_1 said:

I just ran a coat hanger down the barrel and it's not loaded. Also, it filled with grease all but the end 5". It's possible that the bore is clean under all that grease!

There isn't any oder From the grease. I would expect it to smell like petroleum. If it wasn't oil based you would think it would be dried and solid.

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While I have not actually encountered an old muzzleloader with the barrel full of grease, I have read about it. When the gun or rifle was expected to be put away for a relatively longer duration, it was evidently common practice to plug the touch-hole and fill the (clean) bore with melted tallow, which would solidify when it cooled. This sealed the bore to protect it from rust.

Getting the tallow out was a less onerous chore than you might think… They would stand the firearm near the wood stove until the barrel had just warmed up, but not hot enough to completely liquify the tallow. They would then tip the gun muzzle down, over a container of some sort, and the tallow would slide out in one semi-solid column. You then wipe the bore as you normally would.

I will say I have not tried this; it’s just something I read, and I can’t remember where. Maybe in an old issue of Muzzle Blasts. It sounded logical to me.

I do have some experience working with tallow, though. It has some odor, but not much, and it is not unpleasant. Clean, properly rendered tallow keeps for a long time. I have some Old Zip patch lube from Dixie that I got in the 1990’s that is still good, with no rancid smell. Old Zip was an 80/20 blend of mutton tallow and beeswax.

Anyway, I can’t say that the subject gun’s barrel has tallow in it, but it might.

Please keep us informed of your progress in conserving this interesting old gun.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

It definitely had an earlier pointed tail lock at one time. The left does indeed look altered for the new double side plates. The light wood there now oddly resembles a triangular plate from an earlier style. It still has basic overtones of French or French influences, ie New England.

Notchy Bob said:

???

I think any attempt at proper restoration might not be cost effective, but this is a good piece for display and study. Thank you for showing it!

Best regards,

Notchy

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Our whole hobby is not cost effective, nor is it even logical, but we still pursue it.

oldwood said:

I have never seen a "hexigon" gun barrel breech , only round , or octagon. Hex. , would be a first.

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You are correct it's octagon not hex.
Geometry class was many moons ago for me, and I sat next to a cute redhead so I didn't pay much attention to the teacher.

That’s a nice lock.