Do I need a filler for a 20 grain charge in a .44 cal. Cylinder?

Jason60chev said:

Wouldn't it be more "Manly" and challenging to "win" matches with a full load?
Is "winning" the end all objective, to the experience? Never been fixated on "winning".

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Nope. Why waste powder?

Never knew a person who entered a match competition with the intent of losing, but then again there might be someone who wants to lose.

senseisugarbear said:

A few years back several police agencies had a monthly shoot...10 Depts. in all, One Dept CONSISTANTLY cleaned up....This went on for many months UNTIL someone caught on to the fact that Said Dept was using very light TAP loads , After they got caught , rules were changed so that ALL Depts. had to use the same Brand and load...I don't recall the CHAMPS winning a match since,,,,,,,Be Safe>>>>>>>Wally

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In competition, there are always folks who will find a way to cheat.

20 gr and filler is top notch for accuracy. I run my Ruger with 41 gr of Swiss FFFG for deer but accuracy at distance sucks because the twist is too fast. The Ruger used .45 Colt barrels, 1 in 16 inches.

Red Owl said:

I've never heard this discussed so...IS there a difference in brass frames? Are some more bronze or simply stronger? One guy I know says he has shot 25,000 rounds in a brass frame without any damage. Another issue, it would seem a round ball creates less internal pressure than a conical shape bullet.

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Apparently Pietta made their brass frames stronger over the past 20 some odd years.

Some say they're almost as durable as the steel frames, given that most people won't even approach 25,000 rounds through any percussion revolver. I think a Brasser will last most people forever.

The steel used in these guns is very mild, especially in the frames so it's not much of a gap to fill as far as strength with blackpowder loads.

It was believed that loading was hard on the old brass frames , and that the cylinder would beat against the recoil shield causing increased end shake.
And the very old brassers had pinned arbors which pulled out. Apparently they were expected to be blank guns for reenactors.

I honestly shoot my brass frame Colts the same way I shoot my steel frame Colts. I don't think 20 or 30gr charges are going to unduly beat my .36 or .44 brassers. I don't top off and stuff any of my revolvers.

The YouTube guy claims 1000s of full power charges through a .44 Brasser with 0 changes in mic'd measurements

FishDFly said:

In competition, there are always folks who will find a way to cheat.

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I used to shoot military surplus bolt action and semi auto rifle matches in NJ, ammunition had to be new factory or surplus. No handloads. No glass bedding or different sights, it was "as issued" and even though you could buy stuff like a Swiss K31 using Ruag match ammo and basically be shooting a match rifle, people were still sneaking in "pet handloads" or discreetly glass bedding.

I swear if there was a slingshot competition with a prize of a 2 liter of soda , people would spend $$ finding ways to cheat

FishDFly said:

In competition, there are always folks who will find a way to cheat.

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Cheat is such a harsh word. We had a similar thing back when and finally had to write some rules - Your street gun and street ammo. So - .38 +P.

"Cheat is such a harsh word."

Yes it is.

But, folks are always looking for new ways to manipulate around the rules to get a ribbon, medal or trophy.

It ain't like folks are shooting for Cadillacs.

blackeagle said:

I've never used less than 25 grains, but page 18 of the Pietta manual suggests 12-15 grains FFFg in a 44 using a .454 round ball.

https://www.pietta.us/pdf/Manuale_Avancarica_ENG.pdf

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Same here. I think the lawyers had some say on the Pietta load chart.

If you ask most line shooters, they are all shooting low powder charges, that is where accuracy is.

Most have never been attacked by an irate paper target.

FishDFly said:

"Cheat is such a harsh word."

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For us it was more a matter of "If you don't want to pull the trigger on a full load at the range, would you do it on the street?" Everybody got over it.

TDM said:

While 20 gr is a light .44 load, it’s fine for plinking. For best accuracy add 10 gr or so of grits or cornmeal to keep the ball forward.

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I routinely shoot reduced loads, punching paper under 25 yards what’s the point of full loads except flash and bang, but also use a lubed felt wad so fully seated projectile isn’t an issue.
So to answer the threads question, except for the “no air space rule” no filler is needed depending on the type and length of the projectile.
Personally I don’t consider my self a good enough marksman that the additional quarter inch or so of bullet jump to the forcing cone makes a difference.

I don't give a manure about being manly. I do care about accuracy and enough power to get the job done. Folks who shoot massive loads with poor accuracy remind me of kids with big tires on their toy trucks. I had to tell a kid at work once that he was going to have a heck of a better love life with a stock truck that has ladder racks on top and his company name on the doors than he ever would with those stupid tires and the back seat full of speakers.

Uncle Miltie said:

I use 15 grains fffg and filler because I like to win matches.

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Yeah, if the object of the game is to ring steel, then I use 15 grains of 3Fg, AND two dry "wonder wads", then the ball. Mine are brass Piettas, and the manual suggests 15 grains. <shrugs shoulders>

LD

I shoot 25g of 777 in my 1858s and my 50 cal trapper. it rings the steel with plenty of authority. I would have no problem hunting with that load as long as I stuck to my basics of good shot placement. 25 of 777 is likly hotter than 28 of period BP anyways.

One other point, you ought to pick a charge that proves accurate. Sometimes heavier charges are most accurate. Test various charges.

almost never. if that was the case bullseye shooters would have been using magnum charges for the last couple hundred years and they don't. Pick a charge that is accurate and has enough power for your intended task. more power than you need is a waste of money and a sacrifice in accuracy.

nick_1 said:

almost never. if that was the case bullseye shooters would have been using magnum charges for the last couple hundred years and they don't. Pick a charge that is accurate and has enough power for your intended task. more power than you need is a waste of money and a sacrifice in accuracy.

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Some of us, mainly meself, also like to, occasionally, such as with the ROA, the Walker and the Dragoons to just let er rip. Full charge. Smoke, flame and boom. It’s just worth that extra pennys of powder, and unlike the big boomers in metallic completely manageable. Really what’s the point of owning the big guns if one doesn’t use all the powder capacity.

running heavy loads is fine if you can hit what your shooting at. some folks can do it. most cant. It is absolutely satisfying when you can get a heavy load dialed and shoot it well. At this stage of my life I have accepted that my nerves are not as steady as they were a few years ago so i settle for a medium load. enough to hit reasonably hard but not so much that i get gun shy and start regularly missing shots.

just came in from a shooting session. 5"steel @ 30 yrds with 20g of 777 in the trapper was consistent. up until last week i had been shooting 25g but my last run through the course last Saturday was miserable. I got home and went right back to work to try and figure out why i regressed throughout the day. I realized that the way My grip is shaped the saw handle is a bit narrow and its biteing me pretty hard right on the thumb joint of my right hand. that thumb joint has been broken at least 4 times and dislocated a few times as well. its a massive ball of arthritic cartilage or whatever that stuff is. It was hurting for real with each shot making me flinch like crazy. I backed the load off to 20g and wrapped my thumb in bubble rap and tape. that helped me get my accuracy back to a reasonable place. my 6" plate is at 60 yards but I hit it once out of 5 shots off hand today. BTW even with 20g of 777 that thing really flys when you hit it and then swings back and forth for several min after a hit. that shot is at a slight angle so its not just a back and forth swing it also goes right to left. after 4 misses I determined I was just wasting powder and shot so i moved forward 10 yards to 50 yards and same thing happened one or two hits and a bunch of misses. not productive. moved up to 45yrds and started to get consistent hits. productive. this is all off hand. What's the point of all this drivel? The point is if you cant hit the target its pointelss. might as well just set off fireworks if you just want a bang and some smoke. I made adjustments to get back to hitting the target accepting my limitations for the moment. I will work on improvement in steps that show results not just boom.
Working up a really hot hunting load on the bench that you cant hit anything off hand with is pointless. throw rocks or cherry bombs or whatever... Working up a hunting load that has enough power to get the ob done if you do your part that you can consistently hit well with off hand is productive. I actually just read an article about this in field and stream? the author was on a rant about clients who show up with magnums and how much time everyone wastes tracking wounded game or how many shots they straight up miss...

Light .38 Special Target Wadcutters have been around since forever. Light loads are nearly universally more accurate in any revolver, within reason

This is why PPC has the "power factor " although it's been years since I even heard about a PPC match. Because these matches were supposed to be "service revolver matches " without the use of Mouse fart stuff