Uncle Miltie
50 Cal.
So is Mobil 1, it never had a petroleum base stock.
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Petrolum products and black powder fouling....a chemical analysis.
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Regarding Mobil 1, so are you using it as a patch lube straight from the jug?
They make it a closed hydrocarbon molecule so it doesn't have open ends that easily attach to contaminants. There are differing grades of synthetic base stocks. Redline lubricants use a higher burn off base stock designed for use in jet engines. That European synthetic oil is expensive but continues to never test as good as redline. Amsoil is pretty good for the money with a great additive package. For an engine anyway not sure about black powder shooting!
Uncle Miltie
50 Cal.
I've never used it as a patch lube, but have used it extensively with engines and machinery. If I used it as a patch lube I would lubricate the patch and blot the excess by placing it between paper towels.
Uncle Miltie
50 Cal.
I remember when Redline came out it was said to have a vegetable base stock while Mobil 1 had a polymer base.
It's some big word I can't remember. I do know that it will keep combustion chambers squeaky clean on engines that use oil. It is so far superior that most oil companies including amsoil won't even post test results comparing their products to redline! Lol
Engines don't produce salts. Engines have diddly squat in common with a muzzloader.
Muzzloaders produce salts.
I need a brick wall.... anyone got a brick wall I can use.....
Muzzloaders produce salts.
I need a brick wall.... anyone got a brick wall I can use.....
Try charcoal starter, it is probably an adequate substitute for kerosene.
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Various types of rendered animal fats have worked well for hundreds of years. Not saying that the new things don't work, but the old saying applies here: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Fired a few shots with T/C Patriots today that I hadn't touched in six months. Last time I cleaned 'em I used Bore Butter to lube the bore as a rust preventative and to "season" the bore... which, by the way, is not a one-time thing, but a lifetime process.
I had one misfire (nipple needs replacing) which fired on the second hit with the same cap. Used 3f Old Eynsford with patched round balls lubed with Bore Butter in both pistols. No rust and no fouling that I could detect.
Again, it works. No real need to try to find something else... though I may order some Bumblin' Bear Grease next time I place an order for something at October Country.
Back in the day with petroleum-based lubes, I had all the fouling I could stand and at the range, I could only fire a couple or maybe three shots before I had to either get the cleaning products out or go home for the day. Since I started using Bore Butter and other animal greases, that scenario has not recurred. You wanna use petroleum products? Go for it! You wanna push them on others? Well, you make your recommendations, you quote your "experts", and you use your right to free speech to the best of your ability. That said, I hold another opinion that is also held by others, and I've been shooting for longer than some of you have been alive.
Daniel Boone used bear grease and coon grease and whatever other animal fats he could find. Pretty sure that at least some of his guns are still around and still work more than a century after his death. Most likely he tried different greases over the course of his life, but I doubt that petroleum products ever came onto his radar.
In the end, it doesn't really matter what "experts" say. Experts can be wrong. Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark. Try different methodologies. Use what works and discard what doesn't. When the experts say you should be using the latest and greatest products synthesized from some rock found only in Baltisk crater on Mars, nod your head politely, maybe try the new stuff to evaluate it for your own purposes, and then go on using what works.
In general, though some of us really ARE idiots, (case in point, our Pres.... sorry... can't inject politics here
) listen to the grey-beards. We've seen and done more than you have and some of us know what we are talking about.
'nuff said... or maybe too much. Some of us get ornery in our old age.
I had one misfire (nipple needs replacing) which fired on the second hit with the same cap. Used 3f Old Eynsford with patched round balls lubed with Bore Butter in both pistols. No rust and no fouling that I could detect.
Again, it works. No real need to try to find something else... though I may order some Bumblin' Bear Grease next time I place an order for something at October Country.
Back in the day with petroleum-based lubes, I had all the fouling I could stand and at the range, I could only fire a couple or maybe three shots before I had to either get the cleaning products out or go home for the day. Since I started using Bore Butter and other animal greases, that scenario has not recurred. You wanna use petroleum products? Go for it! You wanna push them on others? Well, you make your recommendations, you quote your "experts", and you use your right to free speech to the best of your ability. That said, I hold another opinion that is also held by others, and I've been shooting for longer than some of you have been alive.
Daniel Boone used bear grease and coon grease and whatever other animal fats he could find. Pretty sure that at least some of his guns are still around and still work more than a century after his death. Most likely he tried different greases over the course of his life, but I doubt that petroleum products ever came onto his radar.
In the end, it doesn't really matter what "experts" say. Experts can be wrong. Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark. Try different methodologies. Use what works and discard what doesn't. When the experts say you should be using the latest and greatest products synthesized from some rock found only in Baltisk crater on Mars, nod your head politely, maybe try the new stuff to evaluate it for your own purposes, and then go on using what works.
In general, though some of us really ARE idiots, (case in point, our Pres.... sorry... can't inject politics here
) listen to the grey-beards. We've seen and done more than you have and some of us know what we are talking about.'nuff said... or maybe too much. Some of us get ornery in our old age.
Scota@4570
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https://www.cherrybalmz.com/history-of-gun-lubricants-cfze
History of gun lubes
History of gun lubes
I read that piece a while back. Very interesting and informative article. To this day we don't really have a match to sperm oil and I doubt we'll ever be able to hunt or raise whales for industrial purposes. Pretty sure that if we ever DID, there would simultaneously be (a) an instant demand for the product and (b) clueless liberals screaming that endangered whales were being murdered... even if a practical method of extracting the oils gradually without harming the animal was found.
Burned black powder produces salts. Maybe there are internal combustion engines running on black powder?
Definitely a vastly different lubrication need. Lol
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Interesting article, thanks.
Scota@4570
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I have played around with a lot of patch lubes. I have tried Jojoba, which is supposed to be close to sperm whale oil. I have also used Jojoba with lanolin melted in. Also, bear oil, tallow, lard, crisco, olive oil, ATF, spit, moose milk, soapy water, commercial mixes, gun oils, mineral oils, greases and more I am sure.........
I have no interest lubes for historically correct reasons. It is fun to try them and see what happens. Since the elders had no access to petrolium it was not an issue. They had whatever they killed to render into lube. I am certain that if they could get good rust inhibitor, say cosmoline, they would have jumped at it. The greasy part of dinner left overs is not a great rust inhibitor. On the other hand lanolin is excellent.
I am a target shooter. My finest accuracy is obtained by the Dutch Shultz system. A relatively dry patch with a hint of mineral oil is made this way. My experience is that patch lube can be to slick. Dry patch and spit patch seem to have the accuracy advantage in my guns. As far as a miracle shoot all day lube, I don't care. I want accuracy. I do not hunt with MLs as for practical purposes traditional MLs are banned for hunting in California (no lead balls allowed). Staying loaded all day is not a priority. One thing out here is fire danger, you want a greasy patch if you shoot in the grass.
I have no interest lubes for historically correct reasons. It is fun to try them and see what happens. Since the elders had no access to petrolium it was not an issue. They had whatever they killed to render into lube. I am certain that if they could get good rust inhibitor, say cosmoline, they would have jumped at it. The greasy part of dinner left overs is not a great rust inhibitor. On the other hand lanolin is excellent.
I am a target shooter. My finest accuracy is obtained by the Dutch Shultz system. A relatively dry patch with a hint of mineral oil is made this way. My experience is that patch lube can be to slick. Dry patch and spit patch seem to have the accuracy advantage in my guns. As far as a miracle shoot all day lube, I don't care. I want accuracy. I do not hunt with MLs as for practical purposes traditional MLs are banned for hunting in California (no lead balls allowed). Staying loaded all day is not a priority. One thing out here is fire danger, you want a greasy patch if you shoot in the grass.
How sad for you... living in California. Just curious, how did Jojoba work for you? As it is a non-petroleum product, I am considering acquiring some for next summer. Bore Butter works fine for conicals, and can work for patches if you individually lube them, but liquid products work better for lubing... say... a couple hundred linen/silk/cotton patches... especially in cold weather.
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i don't use liquid stuff for patch lube: Back in the day i used boot dressing for patch lube, still do. Used conventional oil on my guns and never had any problem.
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Not my experience. I shot a SASS match with crayola lube bullets and FFFg powder in my '92 carbine
60 shots and it took 3 brass brushes to scrub the tar out of the barrel.
Nothing would touch it and I was afraid the barrel was ruined.
Then I read about the organic chemistry results of petroleum products and real Black Gunpowder fouling..
Perhaps it is workable with Pyrodex and I know for certain APP is fine because I have used that with no ill effects.
Respectfully
Bunk
Scota@4570
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Jojoba works like any other oil. It is very slippery. I let my friend try some, the bottle slipped out of his hand and broke on the ground. : )
The plan is to leave California. Sad because my family has lived in the same part of the same town for 160 years. I have a lot of connections and activities here. I am in 6 clubs. IT took a long time to get in to some. We are shopping Northern Idaho. Hopefully I can convince the local gun clubs I am OK and find some new friends. The biggest fear is being a social leper.
I was in the Middle East as an American. If you can learn to say things like "please forgive me, I am only a stupid foreigner" the locals will eventually accept you. Idahoans will take a look at your muzzleloader and you will be welcomed at the campfire.
