Powder Explosion Caused by Static Electricity Injures Man

arcticap said:

worker being engulfed in flames from a powder explosion caused by static electricity.

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Almost a looks in the video like it ignited when the metal wheelbarrow leg was scraped across the concrete floor, possibly covered with powder residue. A spark generated from steel on concrete would definitely ignite powder, though difficult to tell from the video exactly what caused ignition.

' Over in the UK, a stray firework flew into the street and hit a parked car, which caused a huge fire to erupt. Some bystanders did their best to put it out, but ultimately firefighters had to come and take care of the situation.'

I live in the UK and heard nothing about this 'story'. Can somebody with more savvy clue me in to this one?

TFoley said:

' Over in the UK, a stray firework flew into the street and hit a parked car, which caused a huge fire to erupt. Some bystanders did their best to put it out, but ultimately firefighters had to come and take care of the situation.'

I live in the UK and heard nothing about this 'story'. Can somebody with more savvy clue me in to this one?

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Typically, if you can't find anything on it, it would either be a local not a national story or it really is fake news.

If you stop the video and look at the wheel barrel the man is pushing you can clearly see that it has a metal rest at the rear of it. Most likely, the rest was made from steel.

I am positive that when he puts the rear of the wheel barrel down, the metal rest created a spark. We all know what sparks and black powder will do.

The girl announcer, or someone who told her what to say, jumped to the conclusion that static electricity caused the explosion. I totally disagree with them. As has been mentioned many times on the forum, there is not enough energy (joules, also defined as watts per second) in a static electricity discharge to provide the heat needed to ignite black powder.

It's incorrect stories like this one that keeps on spreading old wives tales.

Next thing I know, someone is going to link this thread as proof that static electricity can ignite black powder.

Zonie said:

If you stop the video and look at the wheel barrel the man is pushing you can clearly see that it has a metal rest at the rear of it. Most likely, the rest was made from steel.

I am positive that when he puts the rear of the wheel barrel down, the metal rest created a spark. We all know what sparks and black powder will do.
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Next thing I know, someone is going to link this thread as proof that static electricity can ignite black powder.

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SDSmlf said:

Almost a looks in the video like it ignited when the metal wheelbarrow leg was scraped across the concrete floor, possibly covered with powder residue. A spark generated from steel on concrete would definitely ignite powder, though difficult to tell from the video exactly what caused ignition.

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The floor was clean where the wheel barrel was set down,
Here's another link to the same story from the Daily Mail with many still photos showing that the concrete was clean before the event. --->>> Firecracker factory worker survives after gunpowder explosion

While it may appear that the flames began by the leg, that doesn't mean that's where the flames progressed from. The powders are contained in different bags, and the burning occurred in a sequence of events.
A bag opens or powder spills our before the rest of the powder burns. It's not for me to need to explain.

The US Bureau of Mines admits that static electricity can ignite black powder and they have proved it with experiments. See post #4 --->>> Static Electricity

"The United States Bureau of Mines reports that confined powder can be ignited by electrostatic discharge energy of 0.8 J, whereas 12.5 J are required for unconfined powder. Dahn and Reyes (1994) have reported that, under certain conditions, black powder can be ignited by a 0.04 J spark.
The presence of the graphite glaze on most black powder grades reduces the static hazard, since graphite is a relatively good conductor and allows charge transfer over the grain surface through the grounding without ignition.

Carpet shocks:

• 750V, 0.04mJ - Spark threshold, visible in darkness
• 4KV, 1.2 mJoules - Winter doorknob spark, small snap, little pinprick
• 7KV, 3.7 mJoules - Fairly nasty spark, louder snap. Ouch.
• Taser, tens of mJoules
• 35KV, 100 mJoules - Highest measured spark: northshore Alaska winter, vinyl truck seat.
• 100KV, half a joule - VandeGraaff machine with chain of children connected"

It's also been claimed that synthetic materials can produce static electricity, And I question what the bag material is that the powder in the wheel barrow was store in.
I found a quote in a Rossi Muzzle Loader Manual that indicates that static electricity electicity has ignited Pyrodex. Whether they should have said black powder instead of Pyrodex I don't know. But here's the quote:

"30. SAFETY FIRST: Protect your eyes and ears. Wear shooting glasses and ear protectors (ear-muff-type or ear-plugs) while you’re firing any firearm.
Avoid wearing clothing made of nylon or other synthetics while near black powder. Static electricity can set off Pyrodex."

See Page 5. --->>> http://www.wedophones.com/Manuals/Guns/Rossi Muzzleloader.pdf

"On or before June, 1751, Benjamin Franklin and co-workers showed that gunpowder could be ignited by a small electric spark, and subsequently people used gunpowder to enhance the explosions of "thunder houses" to demonstrate that grounded metallic rods would protect model structures against lightning damage. ....: --->>> Lightning and Gunpowder in the 18th Century

Posted by Driftwood Johnson:

One last thing. A number of years ago I spent some time in Florence Italy. There is a museum in Florence called the Museo Galileo (Galileo Museum). A great collection of scientific objects from the time of Galileo. Not limited to his inventions, there is stuff from other early scientists there too.

These are called Thunder Houses. They were used by very early experimenters with electricity to demonstrate some of the properties of electricity. A small charge of Black Powder was placed on the brass pedestal in the center of the house. Notice a chain connects the pedestal to the brass ball at the top of the rod. Notice the rod resembles a lightning rod. Once the charge of powder was placed on the pedestal, the box was closed. Remember Ben Franklin's experiments with electricity? He used a device called a Leyden Jar to store electrical charges. Sort of an early version of the capacitor. After the Thunder Box was closed a probe from a Leyden Jar was applied to the brass sphere. The resulting electrical discharge ignited the powder on the pedestal and blew the box open at its hinges. So much for electric discharges not being able to ignite Black Powder. These Thunder Boxes are modern replicas of the originals. The originals were probably used in Franklin's time, the 1700s. The powder absolutely ignited when the charge was applied to the brass ball. I have no idea if they have been tried with modern powder with a graphite coating, but the charge ignited the powder used in the 1700s.



Franklin experimented with Thunder Houses and an electrostatic machine. --->>> Franklin's electrostatic machine - Wikipedia

While we can speculate on what type of powder ignited, flash powder used in fireworks is very susceptible to static electricity.

My bet is that it was flash powder, not black powder that ignited.

Fleener

Hardly a day goes by in China without a firework factory, usually situated smack bang in the middle of a crowded tenement area, doesn't 'spontaneously ignite' and cause horrific casualties. all part of life's rich pattern in china, I'm afraid.

fleener said:

While we can speculate on what type of powder ignited, flash powder used in fireworks is very susceptible to static electricity.
My bet is that it was flash powder, not black powder that ignited.
Fleener

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Thank you for the information and I'm sorry for the confusion.
That would explain it.
I didn't realize the difference.
Here's a Wiki entry about flash powder: --->>> Flash powder - Wikipedia

TFoley said:

' Over in the UK, a stray firework flew into the street and hit a parked car, which caused a huge fire to erupt.'

I live in the UK and heard nothing about this 'story'. Can somebody with more savvy clue me in to this one?

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The time stamp on the video says 2018.

From an electronics perspective, electrostatic discharge is harmful to electronics. Humidity is constantly monitored and is not to be allowed to fall below 40% Relative Humidity (RH) . Above 40 % RH static begins to dissipate and at 100% the charge is reduced to zero (unless specific materials are used to prevent the charge from dissipating).

So, if it's humid around the powder, static discharge is less of a concern.

arcticap said:

While it may appear that the flames began by the leg, that doesn't mean that's where the flames progressed from.

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Photo I pulled off video. Sure appears to start on the ‘clean’ floor between the concrete and the steel wheelbarrow leg.

@fleener beat me to the comment about flash powder being used in fireworks and it’s dangers. Also interesting how the leap was made from ‘static electricity’ to electrical charges from batteries and capacitors....

you fellas always whip up the best of topics...hats off///

Didn't the Bevel Brothers do some experiments with static electricity recently?? I remember reading something, but with a severe case of CRS it has slipped my mind.

I have a really hard time with acronyms.

Any time I use them, example given (eg), I use this format:

Complex regional pain Syndrome (CRPS)

I thought the average age of forum members here would be old enough that CRS was a common acronym, I think a lot of us suffer from it, most of my friends do. Can't Remember Sh*t.

in about 1970, a guy came into the LGS, with his arms suspended in wire frames and his face covered in some kind of grease. so we asked him what happened. he said he only used BP, guns once a year. and he went out his shead and the can of BP, when he opened it up, it was a solid lump. so he grabbed a SCREW DRIVER off of the bench and whipped it on his wool hunting shirt to get any foreign material off of it. and when he inserted it into the powder to break it up, instant agnation of the powder. GRAPHIT or not it happened. when he wiped the screw driver across his hunting shire it set up a static reaction. use a wooden dowel when it is clogged up. same with a clogged powder horn, I have seen guys use a coat hanger to break up the clumped up powder.

Here is a series of experiments that demonstrate that simple 'static' sparks can NOT set off black (or smokeless) powder. The 'Thunder boxes' used a stored charge (Leyden jar), which can hold much more energy than a person or simple object. It is certainly possible to set off powder with an electric charge, but it is not easy.

Static electricity and BP
How to make it go off if you want it to...

Yes static electricity can cause a explosion I know of three instances with one fatale injury , always remember never carry loose black powder if wearing nylon clothing . Has this topic has been talked about several time it is up to the individual to come to his conclusion .
Feltwad