Trying to save an old Smoke Pole

[oakspring]

Well I jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire. I just picked up a kit...well, sort of.

My first thought was that it looked like a DGW Tennessee Mountain rifle except for the trigger guard. All the other furniture is brass.

The lock was rusty and the main spring broken. It's a Dixie Gun Works lock...not sure exactly which one as there is no number on it that I can find. Not sure of the age of the rifle either.

The finish was cheap and cheesy with LOTS of sanding marks and gauges and regular run of the mill hardware screws were used to secure the lock without a proper side plate.

The muzzle cap is on crooked and looks like it was epoxied on with cloth mixed in with it, so that is going to be fun to replace.Figure I grind that off and try to get down to the original wood and rebuild it from there.

The patchbox is warped and difficult to remove.I figure I can probably clean that up and build a proper cover for it.

Overall it's pretty rough, but I think salvageable, but for only $125.00 it's certainly cheaper than getting any kit out there and heck the stock is worth that much even in the shape that it's in. The barrel was pretty dirty but is cleaning up nicely with no pitting that I can see at this time. When the original builder carved out the space for the lock and trigger...he got a little carried away and took out way too much wood. I'm planning on filling the cavern that he created with Brownell's Acraglas Epoxy and then re-inlet the lock and trigger...unless someone has some better ideas.:bow:

I've sandblasted the lock which was looking pretty bad and will now proceed to polish and refinish it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. The touch hole was just drilled into the side of the barrel...should I drill and tap that out and install a removable touch hole? BTW the barrel is 42" long, I believe it's 50 caliber (where do I measure to determine that. From Groove to Groove or Land to Land?) and it appears a straight barrel and not swamped. I'll need to add the missing thimbles and replace and square up the muzzle cap. I was considering either rebuilding the sliding wooden patchbox cover or perhaps trying to cover up that part with a brass inlay patchbox. What would be the proper size of a ramrod for a rifle like this? Could the single trigger be replaced with a double or set trigger? Is it worth the effort?

I'll try to post pictures as I go about trying to reclaim this rusty wall hanger to a shooting smokepole. I have both Dixie Gun Works and Track of the Wolf catalogs. Any others I should look at.

Also...cause I'm new at this, what would be a very basic "get started" kit for this rifle? What would be a basic load to begin with and what would probably be too much? I have a friend that shoots black powder and he suggested I start with FFF black powder for both the main charge and the flash pan. Sorry if I sound ignorant....but I am. Thanks for any suggestions and advice.

Doc

 

[paulvallandigham]

If its .50 caliber, the land diameter is the Bore Diameter, and it should run .500-.501. The Groove diameter - groove to groove- should be .010 to .012" larger than the bore diameter(.510-.512" diameter). Measure that at the muzzle, where you can fit inside calipers to get the measurements.

Start with caliber loads, ie. 50 grains, and work up by 5 grain increments. Use a .490 ball, and a .015-.018" thick patch. 75 grains tends to be an accurate hunting load using the PRB. Some guns prefer 80 grains. Some prefer 70 grains. Try both FFFg and FFg powders. Some guns like one more than the other.

You need to check the bore for pitting, and rust. It needs to be cleaned well. The inside of the lock should also be cleaned, and then well oiled. If the gun has not been fired much, you need to check the lock for parts that rub where they should not be touching. Those areas should be filed, or ground off, so you don't slow the working of the lock. Go to Bob Spenser's Black Powder Notebook, and read the articles there on loads, and flintlocks and terminology.
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html

Study the lock pictures show there, and compare them to your own. Then study the movement of the parts as you manually operate the lock. There are three springs in any flintlock, and each is the driving force for a series of parts on the lock. They all have to work correctly for the lock to fire properly. Read the articles you will find at the top of the index page under Member Resources. All the articles give good information you need to know.

Then write down your questions as you read through everything, and examine your gun closer, and come back and ask your questions here. We can answer most of them.

Those Dixie GW mountain rifles were built in Japan, but are good shooters, by and large. The wood may not be anything to write home about, and may be beech, or even birch, instead of maple, or walnut. If the patch box is sticking thats a pretty good indication that something has warped, and that usually indicates the gun sat somewhere very damp. I would strip off the trigger guard, buttplate, pipes, and end cap, just to check on corrosion under them. That is a Lancaster style trigger guard, and you would like the Tennessee style trigger guard better on that gun. Check the " Links" on the index page to find suppliers with on-line catalogs to search to find what you want. I would remove the brass end cap entirely, and find some way to replace it with a wood or antler cap, instead. Some careful sanding of the rails on that patch box should free it up.



With all the problems you report with the inletting, you might be better off just ordering a pre-carved stock- say from Pecatonica, and then inlet the lock trigger trigger guard, patch box, buttplate, and end cap, correctly. I don't see much about that stock that is worth saving. Dick Greensides can cut the barrel mortise for you, as well as the Ramrod channel. If he has the actual barrel and tang, his people can inlet the barrel and tang for you. That would leave you the final shaping of the stock, and finish work to do.

 

[bioprof]

You might check with Dixie Gun Works. They may still have a mainspring for this rifle.

 

[Tommy Bruce]

Doc, for 125.00 that's a great way to get started. You've gotten good advice so far about finding parts for the lock. I would take the barrel out of the stock and see if it would be possible to remove the muzzlecap by punching out the pin. I'd also remove the breech plug and check out the inside of the barrel and make sure it's safe. If you are able to make the barrel and lock work for you, I'd practice doing the inletting and putting on a side plate with the stock you have and if it's not doable then order one with the correct barrel channel from pecatonica as was mentioned before. Good luck and keep posting. Welcome to the board.

 

[44-henry]

It isn't a Dixie Mountain rifle, the stock and furniture are completely different on these rifles. The lock might be one Dixie sold in the past. Looks to me like somebody bought themselves some parts and put a rifle together. It may be a bit rough around the edges, but is a lot better than some of the originals ever were. If you want to go somewhere with it buy yourself a new chunk of wood and try your hand at restocking.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Dixie's Tennessee Mountain Rifle had a cherry stock and set triggers. That looks like maple. It's likely built from a set of Dixie parts and worth fixing up.

 

[oakspring]

Well I've gotten everything broken down. There's some minor damage to the stock here and there where pins (nails) were used to hold the trigger guard "loosely" in place.Where the original builder used some sort of epoxy filler to hold on the butt plate and of course some sloppy carving. On closer inspection the inletting isn't as bad as I originally thought and I think can be cleaned up to be presentable. I will have to do some filling internally and re-inlet the deeper projections of the lock, but that shouldn't be too bad and will significantly strengthen the stock in that area.

I just received my first order from DGW which included a bore gauge. It spec's out at .45 caliber much to my surprise. Still working on the barrel which is cleaning up nicely.

I have a question regarding the lock. I did get a main spring from DGW that looks exactly like the broken one, fits in there fine but is about 3/8" shorter on the left (where the bend is) than the original. Will this make a difference? I've tried working the lock and it seems a little less robust than I expected but then I also sand blasted (using very fine grit) all the lock parts to get all the rust off them, so they are a little rough. I imagine that now I need to go back and polish all the internals to insure smooth interaction between them and that should speed up the action and insure a good spark.

I also noticed that many people highly polished their locks. Was this standard practice? I was considering Browning the external lock to match the barrel. What is the correct "period" representation?

At this point I'd like to see if I can salvage this rifle before I go on to tackle a new stock blank. I consider this my boot camp into black powder. Thanks for all the advice and support.

Doc

 

[Rollover Jack]

Doc...

Congratulations on your purchase! I only have two suggestions to add. First, be very sure that the barrel is not loaded! This has occurred before to other people. Also, heat is very good at softening epoxy for removal. Take your time and have fun with it.

"Less powder, more lead.
Shoots further, kills dead."

 

[oakspring]

Thanks Jack, I didn't think about heat....that will save me a lot of time. Oh and the barrel is very UNLOADED...first thing I checked. BTW I have the barrel out and the breach plug off so I can see all the way through the barrel. That's how I'm cleaning it....what a mess. I don't think the previous owner fired it very much and I don't think he ever cleaned it. The lands and grooves are looking pretty good where I've worked the soot and dust out.I'm thinking of running one of my brass brushes on a drill with plenty of breakfree and work it up and down the barrel from the breach side.

 

[tecum-tha]

I would NOT use a brush on a drill in a rifled barrel. On a dirty smoothbore yes, but not in a rifled barrel. What you need is TIME!!!. Let the oil and cleaner you use the time they need to work. I like to clean like that: Bore cleaner,patches, thick break-free oil let sit for 1-2 days, then brush, then patches and all over again until you`re satisfied. Gun barrel steel is very soft. The fast rotation of even a softer material brush may marr your interior surface.

When I was in the military I learned a great deal about cleaning artillery parts. There is a gas check ring in our howitzer, which was always dirty with a heavily burned on layer of residue up to a 1/8" thick. All the other artillery groups had to clean theirs immediately and scraped and scratched :youcrazy: . Next time it was even worse to clean, because of the marred surface. Our group sergeant had a second "ring" in "personal" stock, and we just let the dirty one sit in oil in a bucket for 10 days and then just wiped it of clean. No brushes and no scratches, just a soft rag. That is easy cleaning :grin: That teached me something about taking my time cleaning...

 

[oakspring]

Tecom....Ok....I'll soak the snot out of it and let time work on it. Got the epoxy in and solid now. It's looking very good and should really strengthen the lock and wrist of the stock. I think I need a stronger main spring than the one I just ordered from DGW....it's about 3/8 of an inch shorter at the bend. Doesn't really snap the flint down hard enough to throw the fizzen (?) back.