Tin lined Copper Kettle

[Hawken12]

I'm askin the forum,about care an maitenance of these items?
Just got some small kettles in the mail,couldn't wait for a campfire to try em out,so boiled water for tea,not bad.But ,will they rust?how do ya put them away for the season?Just dry em good?
Thankin ye in advance Peter

 

[ameling]

Copper doesn't rust as such, but it does "tarnish". The surface of copper "oxidises" in contact with the air. That dulls that bright shiny look. And if it goes far enough, it will start to form some greenish/whitish powder in spots. That green crud does wipe off, and a little polishing compound will shine the copper right back up. But exposure to the air will start that "tarnishing" again right away. Eventually it will start to look like the outside of a common penny.

That tin lining won't rust. A simple washing will keep it in good shape. But that tin can still tarnish/discolor a bit. Again a little polishing compound worked over it will shine it back up.

But most people just let them age/tarnish/discolor naturally. It gives it that ... used ... look. As long as you keep it clean, there should be no problems in cooking. So just wash and wipe them off after use. A simple cloth cover between your copper kettle and other utinsels/pots also helps.

A note on polishing: every time you "polish" copper or tin, you wear away the surface of it a bit. Polish it too much and you could wear it down to being thin in spots - especially that tin lining.

Just a few humble rambling thoughts to share. Take them as such.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. I have several tin lined brass kettles and an un-lined copper kettle. The only thing I do with them is give them a good washing after use, and make sure they are dry. It works for me.

 

[Many Klatch]

If you want to keep the copper outside shining, you can use a mix of lemon juice and salt. Just mix up a slurry of the stuff and wipe it on. The copper oxidation will disappear. We use our copper ware when we camp. When we get back home after a week of camping the copper is black as ink on the outside; a little steel wool, soap elbow grease and the lemon/salt mix and the outside looks a lot better.

On the inside of the pots we carefully wash the tin lining but try not to use anything that is abrasive. The pots can be retinned but trying to find someone to do it is the challenge.

Our pots stack one inside the other. To keep them from rattling and possibly wearing away the lining. We keep them separated with rags stuffed between each item.

Many Klatch

 

[Crossfire]

Mike, you mentioned that the tin lining will not oxidize and I have observe that to be true in my tin lined copper pot that I have had for years. My question is, I had a tin cup and tin plate that I bought from Panther Primitives when I started trekking and they both got rust spots on them fairly quickly. Are they maybe not made of tin? Do you (or anyone else) have any idea why that happened, how to stop it, and how to get rid of it once it is there?

 

[Black Hand]

The tin "lining" on these types of items is VERY thin. The slightest nick (as can happen with vigorous scrubbing or using a metal spoon) will expose the underlying steel and allow rust to form quickly. The tin lining on hot-dipped tin items is much thicker and resists better, but is also more expensive.

Unfortunately, once the tin is scratched on these cheaper tin-lined items, it is a losing battle. You can wash the items and dry them well (some people actually go as far as to give them a light coating of oil), but in the end they will still rust.....

 

[J.D.]

I had a tin cup and tin plate that I bought from Panther Primitives when I started trekking and they both got rust spots on them fairly quickly. Are they maybe not made of tin? Do you (or anyone else) have any idea why that happened, how to stop it, and how to get rid of it once it is there?

I have a tin cup/boiler bought many years ago that looks like it has gone through a coupla wars. While this boiler is made of heavier iron than most I have seen, but you shouldn't have to worry about rusting through if normal care is taken. Just wash it and dry thoroughly when finished with it.

God Bless,
J.D.

 

[George Kevil]

To keep your lining in good shape use a wooden spoon instead of a metal one to keep scratch down to a minimum. These scratches turn to bigger problems with age.

 

[ameling]

The "tin" various things are made of is actually sheet iron that has been coated with a layer of the real metal called TIN. And that tin coating helps seal off the sheet iron to slow down the rusting.

Most modern "tin ware" is made from modern electro-plated "tin". That coating is very thin. So it is more susceptable to being scratched/nicked, and then allowing the iron underneath to start rusting.

HOT-DIPPED tin is sheet iron that is physically dipped into molten tin - to get that coating on the sheet iron. That coating ends up being several times thicker than that electroplate tin. So it is much harder to scratch/nick through it to expose the iron underneath to rusting.

Once you have seen/used true HOT-DIPPED tinware, you will then understand how it got its good rep all those years ago. And then you can better appreciate paying the extra cost to get it in the first place. The "math" works out to something like this: buy a new modern electroplated cup every one to two years or so, or buy a hot-dipped tin cup once every decade or more. One hot-dipped tin cup vs. 4 to 6 electroplated tin cups.

That "thin" modern electroplated tin is also why a number of makers and vendors have switched over to making those common cups/boilers out of un-polished stainless steel. It is harder to work initially, but it will last far longer - more like good hot-dipped tin or longer.

Just a few humble rambling thoughts to share. Take them as such.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Hawken12]

Thanx all,as usual,ask an ye shall recieve,specially here,puts my girls mind at rest and now I can eat,drink and be merry.
Had tin cups before an they rusted ,so that was explained away.
Don't mind the outside patina,actually can hardly wait,way too shiny for this old soul.

 

[Crossfire]

Just a note - my copper pot doesn't have such a nice patina. From cooking in the fire, it's just plain black. Only the lid has that old copper penny look.

 

[crockett]

I'm always looking for a less expensive option. Some stores like the Pottery Shed sell copper pails for low prices. If you fluxed the inside and applied lead free solder and brushed with an acid brush- would that work? Has anyone done that? or would there be a health hazard?

 

[BobKrohn]

Can anyone please educate me on this??

Here is a another copper cookware related question:

I have been a little worried about using them as I hear that there is some danger of getting copper poisoning from interaction with some foods (acidic?). I believe that's the reason that they have a tin coating on the inside. It's to protect you from the copper. Maybe it's not an issue on "mountainman cookware" since it's not used that much. The stuff I would be using is used Thrift Store finds so may have worn tin coating.

PS Per post in topic on canteens. I didn't know this.

01-28-09 03:12 PM - Post#671660
In response to Mark Lewis

The added plus of a copper canteen is that the copper kills bacteria on contact.

 

[ameling]

The big problems that people used to have with cooking in un-lined copper pots/pans had much more to do with HOW they used them and HOW OFTEN.

People used to use their copper kettles to cook in every day for every meal for years and years. The minute amounts of copper salts they got each time then built up over all that time to eventually cause them health problems. LONG TERM EXPOSURE.

The other problem was HOW they used their copper kettles to cook. Their idea of keeping their copper pots/pans clean was a whole lot lower standard than today. Remember that old nursery ryhm? "Peas porrige hot, peas porrige cold, peas porrige in the pot ... NINE DAYS OLD" It refers to starting a pot of food cooking, keeping it hanging near the fire, then continually adding a little more to the pot and heating it back up for the next meal. Sometimes that pot had food setting in it for up to 9 DAYS or more before it was all eaten up and the pot got WASHED! So that food was in contact with that copper pot for many many days, and had lots of time to ... leach out ... some metal into it. It also had time to oxidize and form that "green crud" in the pot. All of that got mixed into the food and then eaten. And that "green crud" is the really bad stuff.

So they did not keep their copper cooking pots CLEAN, and they STORED food in them for long periods of time. After doing this same practice daily for months and years, people started to feel the affects of buildup in their systems.

So the "hazards" and warnings about using un-lined copper for cooking (especially acidic foods) comes from those old methods/practices. Most people will not have any problems if they KEEP IT CLEAN and NOT STORE FOOD in their copper kettles. So clean your copper kettles well (especially if you see any green crud forming) and then just use them to cook food in but NOT TO STORE cooked food in. Then you should have no problems. Unless you are hyper allergic/sensitive to copper.

I cook in my unlined copper kettle all the time. But I keep it clean (not polished shiny bright, just clean) and I don't keep food in it for hours/days at a time. And I even cook chili in it. I have no concerns about it - because I know the reasons behind it all.

This works for me. If you don't like it, don't ask to share my food.

Just my humble thoughts to share, and best used in conjunction with your own research.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[BillinOregon]

Actually, I have heard that verdigris poisoning is more acute when cooking in brass. Seems James Cook mentioned it in his book, "The Border and the Buffalo."

 

[Black Hand]

I'm always looking for a less expensive option. Some stores like the Pottery Shed sell copper pails for low prices. If you fluxed the inside and applied lead free solder and brushed with an acid brush- would that work? Has anyone done that? or would there be a health hazard?

Lead-free solder contains high levels of antimony which could cause problems with long-term exposure. Tin is the better choice and can be ordered from on-line sources.

 

[crockett]

Thanks Black Hand- good info.

 

[ameling]

Brass or copper --- it still comes down to keeping it clean and not STORING cooked food in them.

That verdigres or green crud is the nasty stuff to ingest. So CLEAN any green crud off. The brass or copper does not need to be shiny bright, but SHOULD be very clean.

And brass is just copper that has tin (and sometimes some other metal alloys) added to it. Ditto bronze. Although bronze is usually applied to cast brass, and "brass" to sheets and stuff made from those sheets.

So brass is no more dangerous than copper - except some people are less ... careful ... when using brass.

And any health problems take a lot of long-term exposure to build up.

One side-note to get you thinking: Do you remember those "copper" braclets that get offered for sale every few years - usually being sold to help you with joint pain in knees/elbows? They are just bare copper, and wearing them tends to give you a sorta green band on your skin under that braclet. Well, your body does need TRACE quantities of copper (and other metals)in it to function correctly. But those are TRACE quantities. So absorbing some through your skin can help you. But that GREEN CRUD (verdigres) is the bad stuff to ingest.

Like I said, knowing what I do, I will and do use un-lined copper and brass kettles for cooking - even chili with lots of acidic tomatoes in it. But I only COOK in them, but never STORE that cooked food in them.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands