tennesee poor boy ??

[buzz]

Hey looking for a tennesee or southern poor boy rifle kit and flintlock but i think a true poor boy would not have double set triggers??
please advise if this is right
sorry was unsure were to post this so move it if needed thanks

 

[Zonie]

I agree.

Almost by definition a "Poor Boy" is about as basic as one can get.

No butt plate, cheap bent iron trigger guard, a thimble or two to hold the ramrod and a simple single trigger would be my idea of what's needed.

A simple single trigger can be installed to give an excellent 2-3 pound trigger pull very easily if it is mated with a good American made aftermarket lock.

 

[Dphar]

Hey looking for a tennesee or southern poor boy rifle kit and flintlock but i think a true poor boy would not have double set triggers??
please advise if this is right
sorry was unsure were to post this so move it if needed thanks

Depends on what the original owner of the gun wanted.
I will say this.
I do not consider rifles without buttplates to be particularly serviceable. Its easy enough to break the butt when it has a buttplate. So thinking that a rifle without a buttplate is fit for hard service is the result of not thinking the problem through. Even the cheapest Connestoga Rifle Works guns (think baseline Leman) had buttplates.
Nor do I consider it likely that a serious rifleman would have a rifle with no buttplate. So the buttplateless rifle only makes sense for a pig farmer gun.
A good shot could win enough in matches to have a fully featured rifle if he wanted one. Davey Crockett as a young runaway, got a job and bought a very nice rifle indeed if the surviving rifle is truely the one he had. He also won rifle matches with it and people back in the day shot for prizes and money.
I made at least 3 of these plain rifles years ago when I was a lid and thought they were "cool" and they worked because I used good barrels and locks. But I would not make one today. A waste, considering the time/parts cost involved and what the finished rifle is worth. Having a pig farmer "persona" does not appeal to me either.

Dan

 

[jdkerstetter]

Dan, I think you got off track there. You didn't answer the question. Set triggers or simple on a pig farmer's gun? :grin:

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[buzz]

thanks but my question is if one wanted a simple poor boy southern or tennesee style rifle why are all the kits i found of this style have set triggers and if i was to get one of these kits can a simple pull triger be an acceptible replacement
i agreee on the butt plate i seen afew without butt plates that have cracked stockes from loading on hard surface
so i like the small calibler steeel hardware simple trigger plain of plain stock

 

[rich pierce]

Despite their often plain-ish or sparse, functional appearance, such rifles were intended to be deadly accurate and the double set triggers were intended to make shooting as precise as possible. I think we get confused when we try to impose our 20th century ideas on historical designs. If a different term was used as opposed to "poor boy" to describe the same rifle, we would not think, "leave off the buttplate and use a simple trigger". There are plenty of original rifles to study and use for inspiration and we don't really need to "imagine" what they would have done. There's an historical record of what they did.

 

[54ball]

Look at this circa 1810 in flint, converted to percussion and back to flint recently. This rifle was used for years but taken very good care of.

Link 1810 Mathew Gillespie

Many fine southern rifles were built without butt plates. The Gillespie Rifle in the link is testament to that. There are a few others that date to roughly the same period without butt plates. They show wear but they're still here.

When I hear Po-Boy I think of a late rifle built by an unskilled hand out of junk parts. An example being a CW musket lock nailed to a plank roughly shaped and a barrel attached by iron bands or twisted wire. To me that's a true Po-Boy.

If I'm not mistaken Po-Boy was term coined by Pennsylvania/Kentucky Rifle collectors to describe simple rifles mostly but not always of southern origin.

The sad part is that until recently that 1810 Gillespie would be considered the same as the nailed and wired together piece described above.

buzz to answer your question...

Research is in order for any build, even for a simple rifle. You'll find that most Southern Mountain/Tennessee kits are wrong.

The locks usually offered on theses kits are wrong. Especially the German Siler on a 1800-1850 rifle that originally had a English export or domestic made lock.

Double set triggers were common on these rifles. It was a trait in some schools like the Beans and Gillespies. Single triggers were built though, maybe not by those makers.

I suggest you research and find a type you like. When you decide, get a good stock with the lock and trigger not inlet. It gives you the freedom for any lock and trigger you wish and is just easier in the long run.

 

[Nifeman]

This .36 was made by a gentleman who worked at Colonial Williamsburg an was his rendition of a Southern Mountain rifle...Bud

 

[paulvallandigham]

You load a Poor boy in the field by putting the butt on the top of your foot- not on rocks or gravel! You only need it on your foot when running the PRB down. Cleaning( "swabbing") the bore between shots does not involve enough pressure to harm the wood at the butt.

I have shot my Tenn. Poor Boy for more than 30 years. The butt has a couple of scratches, but no more than the rest of the stock has from negotiating brush while hunting. Mine has a double set trigger, and I have won matches, and done exhibition shooting with it, also.

It does have a steel toe plate, and an antler heel plate, both of which do offer some protection to the butt of the stock.

It does lack a "Grease" hole in the stock you see in many of the modern incarnations of this style of rifle. I prefer to look at the nice grain of the wood, rather than such a "hole".

IF you were to put on an actual patch box of some kind, then I think you would want to put a butt plate on the stock, too. I have seen guns with butt plates, but no patch box, but I don't recall ever seeing a gun with a patch box, but no butt plate( unless lost).

 

[jdkerstetter]

I looked at every picture of Southern guns I could find while working on my current one....hundreds!

While there are surviving Southern Appalacian guns with simple triggers, they are the exception and not the rule.

Almost every Southern gun I have studied has had set triggers. Documentation supports that many were of the single lever type.

If we are asking ourselves questions then lets ask ourselves this; if we were have a gun built and limited means would our money be better spent on a quality lock, barrel and triggers or on paying the 'smith to forge us a nice buttplate and trigger guard?

As has been stated, these guns were built to shoot!

Oh, and as Travis pointed out, get a kit that is inlet for an English lock or inlet your own....stay away from German style locks on S.A. guns. I.M.H.O. Chambers' Late Ketland is the fastest and most appropriate lock one can buy for the money.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[CrackStock]

I think that the whole poor boy is something of rarity. The typical Southern rifles may have been fairly plain, but they commonly had set triggers and butt plates.

(Look up Jerry Noble's series - Notes on Southern Long Rifles 309 582-2852. The last time that I spoke with Jerry, he had 4 books out - I only have 3.)

However, if you just must have a cheap and weak rifle, then Paul has given you good advice. Actually, it is good advice for loading even a finely made Southern gun as the wrist and lock area are thin and can break. Loading on top of your foot will surely prevent damaging this weak area.

(Don't even ask how I know this...)

CS

 

[54ball]

Two questions Crack Stock. How does a Butt plate prevent breakage in the wrist?

Is a fine Golden Age Pennsylvania/Kentucky Longrifle really any stronger in the wrist?

 

[Dphar]

Dan, I think you got off track there. You didn't answer the question. Set triggers or simple on a pig farmer's gun? :grin:

Enjoy, J.D.

Oh yes I did, first thing.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

A person thats 5 ft 4 will have a problem loading the rifle with the butt on his foot. I am 5'9 and my 44 in barreled match rifle is almost too long for this.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

thanks but my question is if one wanted a simple poor boy southern or tennesee style rifle why are all the kits i found of this style have set triggers and if i was to get one of these kits can a simple pull triger be an acceptible replacement
i agreee on the butt plate i seen afew without butt plates that have cracked stockes from loading on hard surface
so i like the small calibler steeel hardware simple trigger plain of plain stock

Rather than come to some web site and ask a question you may not like the answer to or will get conflicting opinions on, buy some books or order them through inter-library loan and do some research and inform yourself.


I hunt a lot of steep rocky areas at times.

A rifle with no buttplate will eventually get the buttstock damaged, likely by the toe being broke off. It even happens with steel buttplates. Slips are common and the rifle may well get whacked. My Don King Flint Hawken has a chip out of the bottom of the toe and a deep rock gouge on the comb above the cheekpiece. Its not a cheap gun and its not replaceable.
The rifle in the photo is a swivel breech FL. Its not a cheap rifle either.

We have no idea how many buttplateless guns were broken and restocked. Its not going to be written down anyplace.

Dan

 

[CrackStock]

Two questions Crack Stock. How does a Butt plate prevent breakage in the wrist?

I do not believe that I conjoined those two items, but you seem to think that I did. :hmm:

My statement regarding loading on the top of your foot is a protective measure for the thin lock and wrist of some rifles, but can also serve to protect the weak toe if a rifle has no buttplate to strengthen that area.

To my mind, the lack of a buttplate is not an enhancement and is fairly rare. Look through Jerry Noble's books and other references. They are out there, but not common.

Is a fine Golden Age Pennsylvania/Kentucky Longrifle really any stronger in the wrist?

That would depend upon which "Kentucky rifle" is being discussed. Some are straighter and stronger than others, but generally speaking, they both share a weakness along the wrist and lock mortice. Selecting correct grain helps, but the thinness is still a concern.

But the real discussion follows what a particular shooter wants out of a rifle. In my view, a fully fleshed out Southern gun is hard to beat. Others want something else.

Here is a well made, but sturdy example:

Might be thicker in the wrist than some rifles of this area, but it sure is a looker and feels even better.

Since we are also discussing buttplates, here is the hand forged buttplate protecting the bottom of the rifle:

Apparently, somebody at Dixon's had a high opinion of it...

CS

 

[paulvallandigham]

My 39" BARRELED TENN. POOR BOY STYLE RIFLE IS NOT TOO TALL FOR MY 6'1" HEIGHT. MATCH GUNS ARE USUALLY RESTED ON SANDBAGS, AND THEY CAN BE TIPPED AWAY FROM THE BODY, TO FACILITATE LOADING. I.E. YOU PUSH THE BUTT OF THE RIFLE AWAY FROM YOUR BODY TO REDUCE ITS RELATIVE HEIGHT!

I do not hunt in the high mountains, but down on the Flats, along rivers and streams, where the deer live in edge cover, feeding on corn and soybeans, that grown in deep, rich, black loam. Rocks are rarely a problem. If I were hunting where you do, my gun would have a butt plate on it, too. :hatsoff:

I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT A TENNESSEE POOR BOY STYLE RIFLE was intended to be taken out to the shining mountains. Calibers were too small for all but antelope and the few whitetails, or mountain lions. Different tools were required there. :hmm:

 

[buzz]

gys wait i jsut asking why all the tenn /southern poor boy kits have set trigger
I had to rifles with set triggers and hated both for the shooting i do it is not need feature as well of them i want to add a southern/tenn poor boy to my gun case and as i want to biuld a kit and pay the money i want what i want
i will venture a guess i have to buy the raw parts make waht i want from a southern style stock and call it good
i seen a lot of guns with no butt plate and all had seriouse damage tothe stock and this could be from bad or im proper handlings but i will want a butt plate even if it is a flat piece of steel

TV manufactureing and sitting fox both offer kits of the rifle im asking about thanks to few on the board who helped point me in the right place i asking for and thanks all the in put and points everyone has made on this issue

 

[paulvallandigham]

With a double set trigger, you, the shooter have a choice you don't get with a single trigger: Y9u ca set the trigger or not, depending on the shooting you are doing.

For instance, I do not use my set trigger when hunting deer. I do use it in off-hand shooting matches, and when doing exhibition shooting, where FINE ACCURACY is needed. :surrender: :hatsoff:

 

[hanshi]

I have a 38" .36 SMR flinter from the other TVM and I call it a poorboy. It has an (iron) butt plate, double set triggers, toe plate, side plate entry thimble and a nose cap. There's no patch box or grease hole and it's plain maple and browned iron with a straight barrel. It's still a plain, serviceable, high quality and accurate rifle. And it's a cheap gun as usual prices go. I'm accustomed to set triggers and generally prefer them to any others. My smoothbore has a single trigger but that's a different animal. I like as much protection on my guns as possible so no naked butt stock to get broken for this shooter.