• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

T/C Hawken .50

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

CSoldier

32 Cal.
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Hey everyone, this is my first post on the forum, so please excuse any imperfections or perhaps naive statements, as I am also fairly new to the sport and hobby of traditional muzzleloading. My question is regarding a recent T/C Hawken that I bought used from a gun shop. It has an excellent stock, beautiful brass furniture, and the lock is in perfect condition. However, I found later that the barrel had obviously been neglected by the previous owner, and there was considerable rust and fouling. As I am a meticulous gun cleaner, I put about four or five hours just into the barrel; hot water, heavy duty penetrant, constant swabbing, and finally some bore butter. After that was all said and done, I took a light and saw that there were still small circles of rust in an otherwise spotless barrel. How do I get rid of those pockets? How do I check for pitting? I'd appreciate any help and I look forward to being an active member on this great site. Thanks,
-H.H.
 
Welcome to the group, I have used windex and vinegar to clean barrels and Hoppes 9 as it says it removes rust and had good luck when cleaning a neglected barrel, make sure you dry it before oiling. Using hot water to clean can cause flash rusting so just use cold or warm water. Enjoy the new rifle and only use real black powder in a flintlock.
 
i picked up a junker BP pistol some time back that had rust that I couldn't seem to get out with regular cleaning. I finally said to hell with it and just loaded it up an shot it several times. When I went to clean it afterwards I found that all that rust I couldn't get out before was gone. I figure the shock from the powder going off broke the rust loose and blew it out the barrel. The wastage from the rust was so bad that there was no accuracy with it so I ended up giving it away for a wall hanger.
 
Don't use bore butter for a rust preventative. Get some quality gun oil, I use RemOil. If you have one of the drop in bore lights it should highlight any bore imperfections when the bore is clean. You can also run some 0000 steel wool in the bore to help with light rust.

When cleaning after shooting, I use warm tap water in a bucket with a few drops of dishwash to cut oil. I then put the breech into the water and pump the water through the bore till it's clean. Then rinse with clean water pumping water through the bore. I run dry patches till dry and then spray WD-40 in the bore while I attend to the lock and stock. Then I go back to the barrel wipe the bore dry or the water displacement (WD-40) and lightly oil with RemOil in the bore and outside. Put it all back together, you're done. Been doing it this way for forty years and never rusted a barrel. Good luck with it and enjoy.
 
Even if you get all the rust out, this barrel is always going to be a problem to clean.
A 50 cal brush on a cleaning rod chucked up in a drill motor will get the rust out. Make sure you are turning it clockwise. Do not reverse it. Do not use Bore Butter for anything except bullet lube. It does nothing else. Use any good gun oil.

BTW, is it an old style lock or a new? :hmm:
 
Don't panic! Many black powder guns have been "rescued" from abuse. First off black powder barrels are more "forgiving" of slight flaws than modern centerfire barrels. If a bronze bore brush and a good solvent /oil such as kroil doesn't get the rust out. You can lapp it and minor pits out with a lead slug and lapping coumpound.Drop me a p.m. if you need advice on how to make a lapping slug. But clean and try the rifle before attempting to lap it. :idunno:
 
Thanks everyone for the advise, it's extremely helpful. I couldn't figure out if there was a way to reply to everyone in general, so realize that everyone was equally helpful. I was wondering, what is flash rusting (said to be caused by hot water), and what is it that I've heard about bore butter curing a barrel? Is that not true? Also, since I cant really get into the flash hole with a dry patch, should I be worried about rusting?
Thanks again,
H.H.
 
Flash rusting is caused by hot water heating the barrel and I guess when it cools it causes condensation on a small level but enough to start a light rust. New steal does not have large pores that need filling like a frying pan does so just oil it when clean. Bore butter is just a marketing gimmic to sell us stuff we dont need and some have reported as allowing rust to occur when used as a preventative as most dont believe it is.
 
CSoldier,
My opinons, based upon dealing with crusty TC's obtained at low prices:
Any pitting at all means that it will be difficult to avoid further metal loss. The slow insidious creeping death of black powder fire arms. So, don't know how much you already know and I'll just go for it...
Always pump it vigorously with a cleaning jag on a cleaning rod with a patch on the jag, the breech end immersed in a supply of hot soapy water*. Clean the breech end with something like a cloth or old toothbrush while the water is there. Then rinse it out with running hot water**. Then dry it out with paper towels on the jag. Pull the flash hole plug if possible and dry it out as best as you can. Then after that thoroughly coat the inside with a water displacement product like WD40 or the nifty stuff sold at the Great Wal for half the price. Sounds like a lot of trouble but it's really quick once you get the drill.

*Hot soapy water because you want the best cleansing action you can have. And, the heat will help remove moisture during drying out.
 
OK, thanks. So really I should just leave the bore butter to lubing patches, and use oil only for rust prevention. I appreciate the help,
H.H.
 
It sounds as if you have done almost everything correctly. The one fly in the ointment is the use of Bore Butter to lubricate and protect your bore. It doesn't work for that. It's a good bullet/patch lubricant but has absolutely no rust preventative qualities. Your bore should be protected with something like Birchwood-Casey's Barricade. There are others and this is just one. Just make sure it has corrosion resistant properties and not just a lubricant.

As one person suggested, you can wrap 0000 steel wool around an old brass brush and scrub your bore to remove the last bit of rust. You can also use a piece of one of those green 3M Scotch Brite pads but you will have to use an undersized jag to get it down the bore.

The "flash rust" that some people talk about is a very light surface rust that quickly forms in your bore (or other steel surface). Many claim that using hot water will cause it to form in your bore. I am not one of those people. I use hot soapy water to wash out my bore and I use hot water to rinse it. BUT....I don't let it sit around after rinsing it, I wipe it dry with dry patches and then spray WD-40 into the bore to displace any lingering moisture. Following that, I run several clean patches down the bore to remove the WD-40. It has little corrosion resistance so I remove it after it has displaced the residual moisture. You don't have to let it sit after spraying it with the WD-40 because the stuff works quickly to displace the moisture. Wipe out the WD-40 and then run a patch with Barricade on it through your bore and it will be in sweet shape to put away until your next outing with it. Of course, you need to be as attentive in cleaning the rest of your rifle.

If you have a caplock, be sure to remove the nipple before flushing the soapy water through the bore and then pay attention to cleaning the nipple. Also, pay attention to cleaning the nose recess of the hammer. Often spent caps will get caught in there along with the fouling from the firing of the caps and the black powder. I always remove my lock everytime. I have found that it is easily cleaned with automobile brake cleaner in a spray can. Just do not get the brake cleaner on your stock because it can damage your finish. With the lock out of your rifle, just spray it good with the brake cleaner to remove all fouling. It will quickly dry but I use compressed air to blow it dry. Then lightly oil your lock and return it to your stock. Using too much oil to lubricate your lock will just give a place for fouling to gather and gum up your lock. I like to put a few drops on a Q-tip and wipe all of the inside surfces of the lock and then wipe off most of the oil with a rag. The light coating that is left is just right for protection from rust. For the moving parts, just the least drop is sufficient. Oh, I just happened to think....do not remove the so called "clean out" screw in the bolster if one is present. That hole is not there for cleaning, it is where the manufacturer drilled out the flash channel and then used a screw to fill up the hole. Some manufacturers drill from the opposite side and then plug the hole so that it is not visable. Most, if not all, T/C rifles have this "clean out" hole. It doesn't hurt anything to remove this screw and run a pipecleaner through there but it is not necessary and most folks simply ignore this little screw.

You mentioned the idea of "seasoning" your bore. That idea is one that was put out by the Bore Butter manufacturers some time back but who no longer tell you that you can season your bore with their product. It is not correct and you cannot, nor do you need to, season a bore. Here is an article written by the late Paul Vallindigham, who was a friend of mine. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/251958/pid/918147/post/last/m/1/#LAST
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Welcome aboard!

There are 2 other options I didn't see mentioned. If they were I missed it and I apologize.

1. have the barrel freshed
2. get a drop in barrel and replace the rusty barrel
 
Flash rusting happens as hot water evaporates from a hot barrel, but it seems to be a complex subject. I suspect it has to do with some combination of water chemistry and barrel steels. Some folks never see it and others do. I stopped using hot local tap water when I got flash rusting consistently in Lyman and Pedersoli barrels using local tap water. I could watch the rust forming following the retreating edge of evaporating water droplets - it was thin and superficial but it was rust. As for getting water out of not-directly-accessible ignition paths, some use alcohol, some use WD-40 as has been mentioned, and some blow air through. I use alcohol because it works and methanol is cheap and readily available around here, and I don't have a compressor. I'll occasionally use it as a field cleaning solvent instead of water (or saliva) since it polar like water but evaporates faster, especially at lower temperatures.

Regards,
Joel
 
Thanks so much for the info and obvious time giving it! It is extremely helpful. I realize now after further research and everyone's advise that the bore butter does very little, but I was actually going off the detailed instructions and info on the back of the bottle. Guess its directed towards inexperienced shooters like myself :). Anyway, thanks again and God bless!
 
This is true, thanks so much! I assure you I am liking this forum more and more!
-H.H.
 
I went shooting this afternoon, and after I got home, commenced to clean my gun using a combination of some of the methods recommended. It is now incredible clean. The rust is basically gone; only the faintest spots in the barrel where the major rust used to be. I honestly think firing the gun a bunch helped get rid of the rust as much as anything else. Thanks again everyone for the advise,
H.H.
 
Hi,

Bottom line, how did it shoot?

I haven't looked here for a few days otherwise I would have chimed in with the shoot it to clean it bit myself. Of course you have to clean powder fouling after you shoot, but as for rust, once you do a basic cleaning shooting is the best way to get rid of it. It's worked for me in everything from a 32 flintlock to a 5" naval gun.

Dale
 
Everyone seems to have different experiences or results with any product or technique mentioned!I recently checked the bore on a gun I've had for close to 40 years.From when natural lube 1000 came out till 3 or 4 years ago all it ever saw was natural lube.The bore looks just as it did when new.It must have worked until I learrned how terrible it is at rust prevention.My son still uses natural lube only shooting once or twice a year with cheap guns.Are his guns rusty?Nope.
 
It's more than interesting to learn all the different opinions.
For the last 5 years all that have used in the blls. of my rifles and shotgun has been Natural Lube. Not a spot of rust, and I have found that all load much easier, important to be more in the hunting woods than on the range. I am using pine scented Nat. Lube,( which I can't find anymore!), because I feel it does mask some odor. I also use it on the exterior in thin coats and find it very weaterproof.
 
Get a bore brush one size smaller than the bore. (45 for 50, 50 for 54, etc...) Get a combo pack of steel wool @ Wallyworld. Start with 00 (ohoh)wrapped around the undersized bore brush. Use a little linseed oil on wool, you scrub the barrel. Wipe every few strokes, hen go to 000, then 0000. I rescued a barrel this way, by suggestion of Chuck Dixon @ Dixons Muzzy Shop outside of Kutztown PA. Then use an ox-yoke oiled patch instead of wonderlube.
 
Back
Top