TerryK
40 Cal.
I can buy a 50 caliber TC Hawken for a good price, but it is a cap lock. I have an extra TC lock for flints. I wanted to use the barrel, or even get a 54 caliber barrel for it. Can it be converted easily?
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T/C Flintlock coonversion from caplock
- Thread starter TerryK
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Most Hawkens have 15/16 ths barrels except for the Big Bore -.54 and larger.
It is my understanding that the conversion can be made from perc. to flint with the right components in hand.
But I would think unless you have a Hawken with a 1" barrel channel you would have to widen the channel to 1" for the barrel to fit to allow you to go larger than .50 cal.
Keeping it a .50 would be an easier conversion,but it would need to be a flint barrel or remove and replace the original breech plug.....I think :hmm:
There maybe a need to remove a little more wood in the lock inlet as well.
I would rather just find a good buy on one that is flint lock already. :wink:
It is my understanding that the conversion can be made from perc. to flint with the right components in hand.
But I would think unless you have a Hawken with a 1" barrel channel you would have to widen the channel to 1" for the barrel to fit to allow you to go larger than .50 cal.
Keeping it a .50 would be an easier conversion,but it would need to be a flint barrel or remove and replace the original breech plug.....I think :hmm:
There maybe a need to remove a little more wood in the lock inlet as well.
I would rather just find a good buy on one that is flint lock already. :wink:
nwtradegun
50 Cal.
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if you convert you will need a flint breech plug. it would be best to let a gunsmith chwnge it https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/667/1/PLUG-TC-F-15-11
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I believe the early and late versions of the lock have a bit different shape to the inlet. Learned that with my 54 renegade flintlock from the early 80s.
If the price is right, buy it. You can sell it for parts, or sell it for more online later. Same goes for the lock.
I buy the l&r lock for mine for 50 bucks less than my.old lock sold for on ebay, but I had to inlet the outside a bit and dig in deeper for the internals.
I'd pass on converting it though, can be done but for what hassle or price.
If the price is right, buy it. You can sell it for parts, or sell it for more online later. Same goes for the lock.
I buy the l&r lock for mine for 50 bucks less than my.old lock sold for on ebay, but I had to inlet the outside a bit and dig in deeper for the internals.
I'd pass on converting it though, can be done but for what hassle or price.
TerryK
40 Cal.
I can get the rifle for 225.
I thought I could sell the percussion lock and I already have a flintlock lock, so basically a TC Hawken for 200 bucks. My best wish would be a 54 caliber in 15/16 so the rifle would be pretty light. Maybe I should just sell the percussion lock and barrel, and just get a turn-key 54 barrel. Is that possible?
I thought I could sell the percussion lock and I already have a flintlock lock, so basically a TC Hawken for 200 bucks. My best wish would be a 54 caliber in 15/16 so the rifle would be pretty light. Maybe I should just sell the percussion lock and barrel, and just get a turn-key 54 barrel. Is that possible?
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that's a pretty good price (I think, but then again, my opinion and a boarding pass might get you on the 'plane).
long ago and far away, i found a really nice stock at a show, and i got the price down to (if i recall) twenty five bucks ... long story short, I already have a renegade in flint, and i wanted another in .62 smooth, but the stock had a 15/16 channel and the Renegade uses a one inch barrel ... out come the chisels and sandpaper, and it's off-to-the-races and "presto" the stock now fits the barrel (or the barrel fits the stock, depending on your grammar).
A few flea-bay visits later, i was the owner of a few new barrels: a pretty nice looking .54 in Percussion, and a .54 that was honestly advertised as being "in less than pristine condition." (That's latin for "sewer pipe.') But the rusty one was destined for a trip to Bobby Hoyt to be made into a .62 smooth, so if some of the shavings are oxidised, I'm OK with that.
Now here's the tricky bit: the breech plugs on the flint and the percussion are a bit different. Do not panic: the lengths are the same (or very close) but if you put a flint breechplug on a percussion barrel, you will need to do some pretty fancy timing to get the flats to line up, and the top flat to align with the hooked breech, and the breech face to bottom out in just the right place. I used a plug from track of the Wolf, and it is slightly oversized, and took a few days of tinkering to get just right, but at the end of the tantrum, the plug was correctly aligned and the hook breech lined up where it was supposed to go.
HOWEVER, the plug I got from Track is oversized (about 17/16 across the flats) so i had to file it to fit with the rest of the barrel ... you see where this is going - now i have to drawfile the rest of the barrel and reblue the thing. (the sights, underrib, keyways and so on do come off, with a minimum of flailing around - just remember, patience is a *&%@ing virtue).
And you'll need a new touch- hole. You can go with the usual tap (it's a 1/4 x24, i think, but don't hold me to that) or you can do what I did and get a White Lightnin' touch hole liner. i personally like the White Lightnin', but unless you're a competitive level shooter, which i'm not, i don't think it makes a huge difference. Go with whatever works for you.
so, to get to the short answer to your question, you can do this, but it will take a good bit of tinkering and thrashing about. Whether or not this is worth it is of course a question only you can answer. If all you want to do is shoot, i'd say probably not, but if you also like to tinker with stuff, it might be a way to go.
As far as the lock, i can att4est to the interchangeability of the old and new style of flintlocks, as well as the percussion: they will all fit into the same mortise.
Since you're throwing money around like the proverbial drunken sailor, check out the Deerslayer trigger at R.E. Davis - money well spent, IMO.
Good luck with your project, and
Make Good Smoke!
long ago and far away, i found a really nice stock at a show, and i got the price down to (if i recall) twenty five bucks ... long story short, I already have a renegade in flint, and i wanted another in .62 smooth, but the stock had a 15/16 channel and the Renegade uses a one inch barrel ... out come the chisels and sandpaper, and it's off-to-the-races and "presto" the stock now fits the barrel (or the barrel fits the stock, depending on your grammar).
A few flea-bay visits later, i was the owner of a few new barrels: a pretty nice looking .54 in Percussion, and a .54 that was honestly advertised as being "in less than pristine condition." (That's latin for "sewer pipe.') But the rusty one was destined for a trip to Bobby Hoyt to be made into a .62 smooth, so if some of the shavings are oxidised, I'm OK with that.
Now here's the tricky bit: the breech plugs on the flint and the percussion are a bit different. Do not panic: the lengths are the same (or very close) but if you put a flint breechplug on a percussion barrel, you will need to do some pretty fancy timing to get the flats to line up, and the top flat to align with the hooked breech, and the breech face to bottom out in just the right place. I used a plug from track of the Wolf, and it is slightly oversized, and took a few days of tinkering to get just right, but at the end of the tantrum, the plug was correctly aligned and the hook breech lined up where it was supposed to go.
HOWEVER, the plug I got from Track is oversized (about 17/16 across the flats) so i had to file it to fit with the rest of the barrel ... you see where this is going - now i have to drawfile the rest of the barrel and reblue the thing. (the sights, underrib, keyways and so on do come off, with a minimum of flailing around - just remember, patience is a *&%@ing virtue).
And you'll need a new touch- hole. You can go with the usual tap (it's a 1/4 x24, i think, but don't hold me to that) or you can do what I did and get a White Lightnin' touch hole liner. i personally like the White Lightnin', but unless you're a competitive level shooter, which i'm not, i don't think it makes a huge difference. Go with whatever works for you.
so, to get to the short answer to your question, you can do this, but it will take a good bit of tinkering and thrashing about. Whether or not this is worth it is of course a question only you can answer. If all you want to do is shoot, i'd say probably not, but if you also like to tinker with stuff, it might be a way to go.
As far as the lock, i can att4est to the interchangeability of the old and new style of flintlocks, as well as the percussion: they will all fit into the same mortise.
Since you're throwing money around like the proverbial drunken sailor, check out the Deerslayer trigger at R.E. Davis - money well spent, IMO.
Good luck with your project, and
Make Good Smoke!
225 is not a bad price those TC guns are starting to go up some I've been told.
Be sure to look at the bore on the gun before buying if possible.
Otherwise you could be out another $125 for a reboring job + shipping.
Tip Curtis Frontier Shop my possibly have a Green Mountain flint barrel for a .50 TC Hawken in stock.
His number is 615-654-4445 :thumbsup:
Be sure to look at the bore on the gun before buying if possible.
Otherwise you could be out another $125 for a reboring job + shipping.
Tip Curtis Frontier Shop my possibly have a Green Mountain flint barrel for a .50 TC Hawken in stock.
His number is 615-654-4445 :thumbsup:
TerryK
40 Cal.
The rifle is in the mail. I'm going to sell the lock and barrel on ebay, and use that money to buy a flint barrel. Since I have a TC lock, I may even put that up for sale to get a RPL lock. I am going to Dixons to get a set of Davis drop in set triggers.
I am in the process of putting a L&R replacement lock in a Renegade.
You better be an experienced gun builder before you attempt this swap. I have built several scratch builds and am pulling my hair out trying to get this replacement lock in my stock and have everything function.
Here is picture to show what you will be facing;
The barrel had to come back 3/16" and down 1/8" to align the touch hole, the tang had to ground way down to accommodate the new lock bolt hole and let the lock fit in the mortise, an amazing amount of wood had to be removed to accommodate the lock internals, the lock was a sloppy fit in the mortise and will need a lot of shims to make it tight.
There are three places around the lock plate with gaps like this;
You better be an experienced gun builder before you attempt this swap. I have built several scratch builds and am pulling my hair out trying to get this replacement lock in my stock and have everything function.
Here is picture to show what you will be facing;
The barrel had to come back 3/16" and down 1/8" to align the touch hole, the tang had to ground way down to accommodate the new lock bolt hole and let the lock fit in the mortise, an amazing amount of wood had to be removed to accommodate the lock internals, the lock was a sloppy fit in the mortise and will need a lot of shims to make it tight.
There are three places around the lock plate with gaps like this;
I ran into that same issue when putting an L&R lock into my GPR. I ended up using an anvil and ball peen hammer on the back side of the lock plate to "stretch" it a little to make it fit. Took a bit of time and patience but it worked and you don't notice unless you remove the lock for cleaning.
TerryK
40 Cal.
I put one in my 54 Renegade and it was not too bad. I had to remove a lot of wood but everything lined up well. But it is good to know. I'll keep the factory Thompson lock and not sell it until I get the L+R prefitted. And naturally I wont buy another L+R until I test the one from my 54. Very good to know thanks.
Todays adventure;
I did a trigger lock mock-up and the back trigger would set and let the front trigger set off the lock but the front trigger wouldn't trip the lock by itself. Lots of soot black and looking for pinch points came up with nothing binding.
I came to the conclusion that the L&R lock sear was a bit higher than the original TC sear and the front trigger was making contact but not enough to set off the lock. I needed to add some metal to the trigger bar.
I took the trigger apart, cut a piece to solder on, hardened it and used plumbers low temp silver solder to attach it to the trigger bar.
I started with this;
I found the front trigger would fire but now the back trigger wouldn't set. I realized my trigger bar was too tall now so I would grind a little off, test the function, grind a little off and test again. When I got down to here everything worked just like it was supposed to.
I did a trigger lock mock-up and the back trigger would set and let the front trigger set off the lock but the front trigger wouldn't trip the lock by itself. Lots of soot black and looking for pinch points came up with nothing binding.
I came to the conclusion that the L&R lock sear was a bit higher than the original TC sear and the front trigger was making contact but not enough to set off the lock. I needed to add some metal to the trigger bar.
I took the trigger apart, cut a piece to solder on, hardened it and used plumbers low temp silver solder to attach it to the trigger bar.
I started with this;
I found the front trigger would fire but now the back trigger wouldn't set. I realized my trigger bar was too tall now so I would grind a little off, test the function, grind a little off and test again. When I got down to here everything worked just like it was supposed to.
TerryK
40 Cal.
Turns out that Dixons had neither the Davis Triggers, or a RPL lock. Nice 5 hours round trip wasted.
Track has both the RPL lock and Deer Slayer triggers in stock.
Put a L&R RPL in a flint GPR kit I picked up and had same issues with sloppy fit. Initially have used stained Acraglas to tighten up. Saving the chips from the re-cutting the cheek piece in stock. Debating using those or maybe peening the lock plate a bit to fit.
Have a TC that I 'converted' (changed factory locks) from percussion to flint. Found deals on two percussion barrels that would be listed on EBay as 'less than pristine' (aka, sewer pipes) that I had Bobby Hoyt re-bore, one to a 58 radius rifled RB twist, the other to a 62 smooth bore. Ordered flint breech plugs from Track and presto, two flint TC barrels. Was considering ordering a flint L&R RPL for the TC. Figured I would send it back if it didn't fit. Probably just save the postage and leave as is with the TC factory flint lock. Hate to take all that wood out of an already weak TC wrist design to clear the L&R spring and guts, although I reinforce all the TC stocks that I own.
Do agree with using the RE Davis triggers as an upgrade. Big improvement over GPR and TC triggers.
Have a TC that I 'converted' (changed factory locks) from percussion to flint. Found deals on two percussion barrels that would be listed on EBay as 'less than pristine' (aka, sewer pipes) that I had Bobby Hoyt re-bore, one to a 58 radius rifled RB twist, the other to a 62 smooth bore. Ordered flint breech plugs from Track and presto, two flint TC barrels. Was considering ordering a flint L&R RPL for the TC. Figured I would send it back if it didn't fit. Probably just save the postage and leave as is with the TC factory flint lock. Hate to take all that wood out of an already weak TC wrist design to clear the L&R spring and guts, although I reinforce all the TC stocks that I own.
Do agree with using the RE Davis triggers as an upgrade. Big improvement over GPR and TC triggers.
Walks with fire
54 Cal.
Glass-gel is your friend for strengthening and filling gaps. Mix some stain with it and you will never see it.
Pecatonica sells some nice Hawken style stocks for a little more than 200 bucks that you can fit TC parts right into. Hard rock maple or walnut too. Full stock or half as well.
Pecatonica sells some nice Hawken style stocks for a little more than 200 bucks that you can fit TC parts right into. Hard rock maple or walnut too. Full stock or half as well.
Guess I lucked out. I acquired a TC Cougar in 50 and was happy with it. Then I got a TC Flint barrel off of e-Bay that was almost new for next to nothing to tell you the price would get me jailed for stealing. Went to TC and got one of their new flint locks. Now I can go either way Flint or Percussion in about 3 minutes all I have to do is change barrel and lock the fit was perfect. Good luck Fox
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