Single vs set trigger

[MIOutdoorsman]

Hi friends. I currently own a Lyman GPR flintlock that has a set trigger and a main trigger, and a Pendersoli Kentucky pistol that only has one trigger. The pistol’s single trigger has quite the pull to it, while the Lyman is a very nice, light touch trigger, once set.

As I contemplate my next flint to be made or purchased, I’m curious if all of the single triggers are pretty stiff, or if my Pendersoli Kentucky pistol just happens to be a stiff one.

I have no way to measure the pull on my pistol, else I’d have a quantitative reference. Hopefully some of you experts can enlighten me with the information provided??

 

[fleener]

Single triggers do not have to be stiff. They might have to be reworked. For my target rifles my trigger pull on the single triggers are around 2.5 lbs.

Fleener

 

[tnlonghunter]

It all depends on where the pivot pin for the trigger is, what part of the trigger bar engages the seat level on the lock, and how well the lock is tuned. It's easily possible make a light, crisp single trigger for a muzzleloader.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Hopefully some of you experts can enlighten me with the information provided??

First of all, I am not an expert.
Fleener's single trigger pull is good. (2.5lbs) If you want a hair or lighter than 2 lbs I would go with the set triggers. A good trigger, set or single will not do you justice if the lock is not tuned for proper hammer release.
Flintlocklar

 

[Art Caputo]

I actually prefer the simplicity of a well adjusted single trigger over set triggers. Both my Kibler Colonial, and Jack Hubbard Flintlock rifles have very crisp 2-2.5# triggers.

 

[tenngun]

I have right now one with set triggers and two with single. I’ve owned multi of both over the years. All my single triggers have been pretty light 3-4 pound range. My sets around a pound. I can’t say I prefer one over the other. Both were popular in the past. And it looks pretty neat.

 

[deermanok]

I have two CVA pistols. My Kentucky has a fairly light trigger pull and my Mountain pistol is a bit on the stiff side. Both single.
I guess I just got used to how they are and don't think much about it.

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Thanks guys. Sounds like a lot of variability out there, and that single triggers are nothing to shy away from so long as they’re built and tuned well.

 

[fleener]

I like both, a good single trigger and a double set. I like a single trigger much better for hunting.

Fleener

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I actually prefer the simplicity of a well adjusted single trigger over set triggers. Both my Kibler Colonial, and Jack Hubbard Flintlock rifles have very crisp 2-2.5# triggers.

I agree with Mr. Caputo, I like single triggers, although some of my rifles do have set triggers.

I have a bit more of a tolerance for triggers, as my duty service weapon is a "nice" 8 lbs. so a crisp 3-4 lb. trigger feels fine for me, and something as light as a 2 lb. trigger I find a bit unnnerving if I'm shooting the rifle or pistol for the first time.

What I really do not like is when a trigger creeps, on a muzzleloader. You apply pressure to the trigger which is then transferred to the lock sear, and you can feel the sear tip grinding on the tumbler just a bit before it releases the cock. To me it's like scraping finger nails on an old fashioned chalk board

IMHO you find set triggers on factory rifles as they allow the company to use a stock, likely a bit rough lock, to be used but the set trigger helps to "make up" for the untuned lock. Most folks in the 20th century encountered set triggers on sporterized surplus military rifles, which once had coarse two-stage military triggers, and slow "lock times", and the set triggers were used by the gunsmith to again "make up" for the shortcomings of that particular arm. I think that in the era when muzzleloaders were the pinnacle of the art, that set triggers were for getting the most out of a precision rifle.

LD

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
A single trigger can be made to be crisp and light and is my preference for all shooting, particularly when shooting off hand. However, there are some considerations with respect to the lock being used. If the lock does not have a fly detent in the tumbler, you have to be careful about creating a very light trigger pull. That is because your finger pressure on the trigger and its lever action against the sear holds the sear away from the tumbler notches during firing and prevents the sear from engaging the half cock notch as the flintcock or hammer rotates forward. A light trigger pull may not be sufficient to keep the sear clear on some locks without flies. That is also the reason you must have a fly in the tumbler when using set triggers. A second consideration is the position of the sear when the lock is pulled from rest, to half cock, and then to full cock. On a properly designed and made lock, that position is the same. However, on a poor lock such as the one pictured below, the sear changes position. Look at the sear bar in the photos relative to the tape. Note at rest, the sear is closest to the tape, at half cock it drops quite low, and at full cock, it rises a little higher but not to the same position as rest.

On that lock, creating a light crisp trigger pull with no creep using a simple trigger would likely result in the sear not engaging the half cock notch when cocking the lock. Grinding the trigger bar down to allow the sear to properly enter the half cock notch would result in loose trigger rattle at full cock. With a set trigger, none of that matters.

dave

 

[Rudall]

I have no way to measure the pull on my pistol, else I’d have a quantitative reference.

Thread a length of thread through a small baggie and dangle it from the trigger of your gun, held vertically. Then add weight (coins, rice...) until the trigger trips. Then weigh the total.

 

[LME]

First of all, I am not an expert.
Fleener's single trigger pull is good. (2.5lbs) If you want a hair or lighter than 2 lbs I would go with the set triggers. A good trigger, set or single will not do you justice if the lock is not tuned for proper hammer release.
Flintlocklar

I am no expert either but I agree with you. I do think the more important thing about set triggers is that they are safer! A slightly hard front trigger pull is less apt to accidently fire. The rear trigger is generally set when the rifle is already pointed down range which is the safest direction. I would take double triggers over a single one. I don't post often but being safe has always concerned me.

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Hi,
A single trigger can be made to be crisp and light and is my preference for all shooting, particularly when shooting off hand. However, ...
dave

Wow Dave, I will need to read that a couple of times, and I will, to fully understand it. Thank you for putting so much time into explaining the intricacies! Your knowledge on all of the details is highly respected.

 

[Howard Pippin]

I actually prefer the simplicity of a well adjusted single trigger over set triggers. Both my Kibler Colonial, and Jack Hubbard Flintlock rifles have very crisp 2-2.5# triggers.

I agree with you Art, because every time I got excited shooting at game I would pull the wrong trigger first. I know I would target shoot a lot better with a set trigger but I finally gave up on my TC, and bought a kit to change it over to a single trigger. The next rifles I bought I made sure they had a single trigger. Being outshot at the target range in no way may be feel that inferior because I'm sure a part of it was a single pull that was harder even though I did what I could to make it lighter but still safe. At my age I'm not having to prove anything anymore.
Squint

 

[ohio ramrod]

I have a very light set trigger on my target rifle and target pistol. But heavier single triggers on my hunting rifles and shotguns.Light pulls are good for accuracy, heavier triggers are safer for hunting guns handled when not on a firing line!Yes I know what half cock is for, but when hunting things often happen that are not planned on! Plus when hunting I often wear gloves and most set triggers don't leave as much room inside the trigger guard.

 

[Notchy Bob]

There have been lots of good responses here, especially Dave Person's comments in post #11.

The geometry of the lock components and the position of the sear bar, in particular, are important. However, even cheap locks can often be improved for use with a single trigger by careful stoning of the sear nose and tumbler notches. My dad was really good at this. He got me a cheap 28 gauge Spanish-made percussion smoothbore (actually a "rough-bore"...) from Dixie when I was about 14, so I wouldn't be abusing his originals. This gun had about a forty pound trigger pull, by my estimate, but Dad disassembled the lock and spent about half an hour with his stones, all the while muttering about the lockmaker's canine maternal parent. In any event, he actually got the trigger down to a very acceptable weight and reasonably clean release. Squirrels were no longer safe in the neighbor's pecan grove. However, you do need to know what you are doing. If done improperly, the risk of accidental discharge increases substantially.

Set triggers are great for deliberate shooting. The "hair trigger" actually trips the other trigger, not the lock. When the rear trigger is tripped by the hair trigger, the heavy spring on the set trigger mechanism kicks the arm of the rear trigger up so it knocks the lock's sear arm up, rather forcefully, instead up pushing it up as with a simple, single trigger. This is why you should never dry fire set triggers with the lock at half cock. The sear arm won't move, nothing gives, and you risk breaking either the sear arm or the trigger knife.

Since set triggers hit the sear so forcefully, and the force is applied by spring action rather than your trigger finger, gunmakers can maybe get away with less-than-perfect sear nose and tumbler engagement. A crisp, light single trigger demands that the mating surfaces at the point of engagement be polished and at the correct relative angles.

If you are still with me here, you might be able to take that Pedersoli pistol lock to a knowledgeable gunsmith and get him to stone the sear nose and tumbler notches to improve your trigger action.

Good luck with it!

Notchy Bob

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

There have been lots of good responses here, especially Dave Person's comments in post #11.

The geometry of the lock components and the position of the sear bar, in particular, are important. However,....


If you are still with me here, you might be able to take that Pedersoli pistol lock to a knowledgeable gunsmith and get him to stone the sear nose and tumbler notches to improve your trigger action.

Good luck with it!

Notchy Bob

Thanks Bob. I admit that I’m barely following, as I’m just not clear on the names of all the trigger parts and components. What I did hear was basically that a “real gunsmith” who specializes in flintlocks can tune my trigger. I definitely appreciate that, and I may resort to that for a different reason eventually (the lock itself, more than the trigger). My main question on this thread stems from my interests in eventually getting a custom or semi-custom gun built for me by one of the craftsmen/pros on this forum, and whether or not the single trigger option is a viable option. Sounds very much like it is, and my single trigger example is not representative of high quality workmanship.

 

[Lobo]

For what it's worth after 50 years shooting black powder and 45 years shooting flintlocks I like a single trigger for hunting and a set trigger for line shooting. Too many times I've had the gun go off when I didn't want it to, while hunting with a set trigger

My.54 Jud Brennan rifle (set triggers

won and set a record for the 25 yd off hand flintlock. in 1977

 

[ugly old guy]

Way, way back in the 1987's I had a .45 caliber CVA "Kentucky" rifle with (factory) single trigger. The pull was not stiff nor heavy.
(Traditions currently sells an identical although .50 caliber "Kentucky" rifle.)

I have a .50 caliber Traditions "Trapper" pistiol, with double set trigger.
The trigger pull when unset is smooth, with about the same pull as a good single trigger. Ditto on my (pre-fire) Thompson Center (factory) .54 caliber Hawken rifle's double set trigger.
I'd guess in the neighborhood of 2.5 pounds on both when unset.
(when set, both are a "hair trigger" and not useable when wearing gloves.)

It sounds like you have a defective single trigger.

On your LYMAN GPR once set, you should have a "hair trigger" that requires ounces, not pounds of pressure applied to fire.
That was/is the purpose of a set trigger, to decrease the lock time.
you should be able to fire just by touching the trigger when it is set.
There shouldn't be any noticable distance or resistance to the pull when set.