seating cutlery pins

[SteveFink]

Hello - trying my hand at making a couple of knives and got a couple of green river blanks, maple scales, & cutlery pins from totw - any tips or techniques to get the pins to set right - buggered up a couple -- not afraid to get more tools to do it right if need be because I definitely can use more tools.


Thanks

 

[omarick1948]

Omaha boy huh? ... Well take it from another Omaha boy, that it depends on the type of knife pins or rivets you have!....tell us!

Rick

 

[SteveFink]

they are brass & from track of the wolf - they have male & female part and each is about 5/8" long

 

[necchi]

Well, ya gotta inlet the scales for the pin's "head" first.
Then they need to be cut to length for the scales,,
Leave the female short of going all the way through both scales and the male needs to be sorter so it doesn't bottom out in the female before it's at proper depth. And I'll ruff up the shank of the male.
I've had better luck squeezing them together in a vice,, slowly turning the vice in till almost complete,, then finish with a hammer and punch.
I also add a drop of Devcon Epoxy to the female section, not too much.

In all honesty I haven't had alot of luck with those things lasting a long time. They tend to let loose with heavy use.
Pretty much just changed over to brass and steel rod.

 

[LRB]

That type of rivet was not in use until the late 19th c. Greywolf or Crockett could give you closer dates. I have read 1880's, and 1890's. Previous to that period the most common grip slab attachment was smallish diameter iron pins with slightly peened heads. On some, brass washers were used, but still connected with peened iron pins.

 

[LaBonte]

Wick's right in part - the most common fasterner during much of the 1900's were small iron pins and "common knowledge" is that brass cutler's rivets were not used until post 1880 or so, BUT the Steamship Arabia collection which dates from 1856, has a Green River knife with two large brass rivets in the grip - from the image these look to be actual large headed brass rivets and not the pin/washer type rivets used on HBC dags and such.
Further research is needed but the later dates so often touted for cutler's rivets may be in error.

 

[SteveFink]

thanks - I read elsewhere a vise is what works best so will try that - I did countersink the holes. I also understand these are a later style and for the first few attempts that doesnt matter as much to me

 

[Chris Hayes]

Hey Steve, check with Wade, I just gave him a bunch of 1/8th" brass pins.

 

[crockett]

That 1856 date is the earliest date I've seen on Cutler Rivets- thanks Chuck. In any event they are post 1840 to the best of my knowledge. If you want something more pc just use some steel pins- a short section of coat hanger works pretty well. The coat hanger is soft and can be slightly peened or just glued in place. The pins on the butcher knives could be arranged in different patterns. The easiest is three in a straight row- this would work if that is the way the tang is drilled. Another pattern is four pins in a sideways T. You can also do five pins in an H pattern and in some Sheffield butcher knives the center of the H uses a brass screw without any head- it looks like a heavy brass pin HOWEVER these are in later (post 1840 catalogs) The product number in these post 1840 catalogs matches the earlier numbers on the inventory lists of the fur companys but whether a #1234 Model in 1838 was the same as a #1234 model in 1860 is speculation.
On a scalper the pins are sometimes smaller, say 3/32 and three in the front- if a one piece handle sawn for a half tang; or, 3 spread out over the length of the handle if the handle was two slabs pinned together.
In any event- use iron pins, not brass pins. Epoxy glue them in place. The original knives look like the pin ends were peened but you can crack a wood handle or dent the wood if you try to peen. The peening process in Sheffield (where a lot of knives were made) was probably done by some sort of a press- rather than by hand using hammers.
And...seating cutler rivets. Some knife making supply catalogs list a step drill that will bore a perfect hole for you if you still want to use the cutler rivets. I've just used the compression fit which has worked well. As stated, after a lot of use the handles might get a little loose although there are a lot of old knives with pretty tight slabs/handles.

 

[LRB]

Surviving scalper relics with peened iron pins appear to have a minimal peened head on them. Since I have been using peened pins, only one has cracked the wood. Very minimal, and it was my fault for over doing the peen. I suspected it might, but went with it anyway. Apparently, it doesn't take much of a head to secure the grip. The grip that cracked was boxwood. Beech may be more forgiving.