Schooling the Fools

[stinkyfeet]

My self and 3 of my buddies traveled about 80 miles one way to go to a rondy. Once we get there and signed up, and waiting for our group to shoot. Some rather uneducated guys come up and laugh at our flintlocks, saying its way to wet out for them to work since it was sprinkling all morning. Our group of 4 starts out my trusty 45 flinter, my buddy george his 40 flinter, toothless timmy with his 50 flinter, and finally Bubba with his 72 smooth bore flinter and the education begins. In a combined 80 shots for the group we had 3 misfires, 1- Flash in da pan, and 2 no sparks from a dull flint. At the end George took first, myself 2nd, Toothless got 3rd and Bubba got 6th overall for about 50 shooters. Everytime we heard a snap, or crack and no snap from the cap gun cowboys we laughed. Afterwards they asked us what we did to combat the rain. Simple keep ya powder dry, don't leave muzzle exposed with empty gun, leave pan closed and lock covered with a wipping cloth until ready to prime and shoot. These guys were leaving the muzzle exposed, then dumping the main charge down a wet barrel, having the hammer full/half cocked with no cap letting rain get in and having their pre-loaded cappers hanging from their bags and neck, exposed to the rain. Not a smart guy but wet barrel, makes dry powder turns wet, a wet nipple with a wet cap on top of it equals no bang. Sometimes ya just have to shake ya head and shrug the shoulders, especially when they won't listen. Good thing the ole'trusty flinters fired when tols too.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Good job. Its really rather amazing what a bit of care in loading simply to keep the powder dry can do for the purpose of reliability.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Good job! It's always fun to show the non-believers that wet doesn't mean useless. The other fun demonstration is too show the "flintlocks work so slow you can hear the 'click', 'foosh' and 'boom'!" crowd by holding the gun inverted and 'klaboom'!!! There's so much misinformation and outright silliness out there about flinters...and it's not new. Back in the day, many people who should have known better, insisted Disney used an electric lock on Fess Parker's rifle on the "Davy Crockett" series! I mean, we all know how unreliable flintlocks are!! IDIOTS!! :haha:

 

[Dean2]

Just read this after making my post. My observations, and it wasn't even raining, was a lot different than this. The cap locks did not have anywhere near the failure to fire or mechanical issues that the guys shooting flintlocks had. Both suffered equally from the effects of fouling, except the cap lock guys shooting those hated substitute powders who had no fouling issues that I saw. I not only watched closely but I asked a lot of questions.

I get that doing dumb stuff versus smart stuff makes a huge difference; but knowing to keep your powder dry and gun protected doesn't to me prove that flintlocks are more reliable than caplocks, just that in this case the flintlock shooters were appropriately more careful and from all appearance quite a bit better shots than the cap lock shooters.

I know I am likely to get torched for this perspective on this particular forum, and I own more flintlocks by far than caplocks, just because I like the challenge better, but it doesn't change the fact that percussion took over from flint in large part because it was more reliable, simpler, less complicated lock and yes, more water resistant than the flint ignition system. Were this not true, cap locks would have never taken over almost universally from flintlocks. Let the flaming begin. :hmm:

 

[MSW]

ok, please consider yourself well flamed, by a true flame expert (just as my kids- they'll tell you) ...

I think what irk me most is the mean spirited teasing of flint shooters ... when I go to the range, do I make fun of the guys shooting 'black' rifles?

so why do they get to make fun of my rifle? (hint, they don't, at least not without impunity)

just because our diplomats behave badly doesn't mean that we have to

(ok - it's safe to come out now ... that's the end of this morning's rant)

regardless of what you shoot, I wish you the best:

make good smoke!

 

[M. De Land]

Your telling the truth wither it's liked or not!
I love my flint guns which are very reliable when their quirks are properly addressed.
I find my underhammer percussion to be the most reliable of all.
I can't remember a miss fire if the cap was good and it wasn't dry balled. Mkke D.

 

[S.Kenton]

I LOVE my Flintlocks ( even though I flinch), I own a Trade Gun and a Reading Penn. rifle, they are ALOT of fun to shoot. HOWEVER, my Hawkens rifle, is more or less maintenance free for rondy's, no matter the weather conditions. In the last three Rondys I've went to this year I've had 0 issues with failure to fire or hangfires, that's more or less 75 shots, 25 shots per rondy.Not to mention I shoot in my backyard, with the same results. I most def. cannot say the same with my flintlocks...

 

[stinkyfeet]

I guess some are missing the point of my post it wasnt that flintlocks are more reliable. It was you can't shoot flintlocks in rainy weather comment being proven wrong, followed up by the same guys not taking precaution measures to keep their caps, barrel, and powder dry, thus leading to "their" misfire issues. It wasn't about cap guns being more reliable or flinters being more accurate. I own more cap guns then flinters truth be told I just like to challenge myself with the flinter, its more of a personal connection with the gun thus the naming it, taking care of it, learning her quirks, her likes and dislikes, and how she reacts in different environments and weather. Its like a teen-age daughter :rotf:

 

[chuck-ia]

We just laugh when someone says yu can't shoot a flintlock in the rain. flinch

 

[chuck-ia]

You do have to keep the powder dry though. flinch

 

[tenngun]

I am always amazed at how the story is chnged to fit the need. In LOM hawkeye could shoot a running man in woods and poor light in just a second or two to find his target and aim (and calculate where to hold with that silk=another 40 yards load), While in the ARW history book "George Washingtons war" Shots from muskets fall harmlessly to the ground at 80 yards.
On the one hand we are told that guns couldn't fire in damp weather, or hit the broad side of a barn from the inside, on the other hands whites were able to mow down every thing that moved,including indians. The mere presents of 16 cannons(read guns about swivel gun size) and 200 harkubusser could slaughter the Aztecs.(please dont mention the large numbers of indian nations who were rebelling against the aztecs at the time).
I shoot at a public range and get a crowd of on lookers, even offer some shots now and then. In the last few years I've not had an experince with anyone being a jerk, and most are amazed that flinters can shoot at all.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

I like when they bring there wives/GF to the range and when I shoot there's this whole whispered conversation.

Always wonder just what's said :hmm:

Her; OMG did you see all that smoke? Is his gun broken like that time I ran the car out of oil?

Him; no he's shooting a muzzle loader, they're old. they smoke like that because of black powder.

Her; :shocked2: BLACK POWDER!

Him; shhh not so loud :nono:

Her: like in a bomb, black powder?

Him; Yyyyep

Her; is he crazy??

Him; well he carrys black powder in a purse, what do you think :youcrazy:

Her: OMG and I was gona ask him where he got his purse, it's so vintage.

:rotf:

 

[hawkeye2]

OMG that's SO true! :rotf: :thumbsup:

 

[stinkyfeet]

Ya'll ain't right in the head, even if ya might be right about the convo

 

[S.Kenton]

:rotf:

 

[gwalker]

2_Tall makes a an excellent point about the shooter's skills. Its interesting that Harriette Simpson Arnow and others, when writing about the reputation of the the American Long Rifle from the mid-1700s into the mid-1800s, typically always prefaces their comments with, '...in the hands of a skilled rifleman...' Its not about the ignition system; its all about the skills of the shooter. Reminds me of the old adage, 'Beware of the man that only shoots one rifle, for he knows how to use it.'

 

[Brokennock]

B.P. "truth" must be different for different people. As my experience has been otherwise. My flint Tule Fusil is far more reliable than either of my caplocks. And it isn't even ideally tuned. I've had far more failures to fire from my cap locks and I find them to be more of a pain in the ..... Both to deal with after a failure and in general. I hate dealing with those tiny caps, fussing with where the blockage might be when they do fail, banging through a bunch of 'em clearing/drying/etc. Flinter = dry the pan and pick the vent, done, shoot. Out of caps/lost caps/wet caps =screwed. Out of 4f priming/lost primer/ wet primer= prime with main charge powder and shoot.
Sorry but for me caps have been nothing but frustration. On one of my cap locks I'm pretty sure the problem is that stupid patent breach, but overall I've had more success with flint.

 

[M. De Land]

You have to learn the quirks of your caplock just as you did the flint lock.
Not only is percussion a faster ignition it is also more accurate!
That ought to get a fight started but it is absolutely true when were talking precision shooting.
If you ever have a chance to read Ned Roberts book on the cap lock rifle you will soon see that the caplock precision rifle made the flintlock obsolete in all categories, reliability, speed of ignition and accuracy.
Some times the truth is tough to hear.
Still, I absolutely love the two short guns of flint ignition I have.
I shoot the match flint pistol almost exclusively now in deference to the cap guns.
I may have to put a long gun together one day but so far I only have a desire to shoot flint hand guns and prefer the cap guns for long gun shooting. Mike D.

 

[tenngun]

You have to learn the quirks of your caplock just as you did the flint lock.
Not only is percussion a faster ignition it is also more accurate!
That ought to get a fight started but it is absolutely true when were talking precision shooting.
If you ever have a chance to read Ned Roberts book on the cap lock rifle you will soon see that the caplock precision rifle made the flintlock obsolete in all categories, reliability, speed of ignition and accuracy.
Some times the truth is tough to hear.
Still, I absolutely love the two short guns of flint ignition I have.
I shoot the match flint pistol almost exclusively now in deference to the cap guns.
I may have to put a long gun together one day but so far I only have a desire to shoot flint hand guns and prefer the cap guns for long gun shooting. Mike D.

Good thing your so fer away or it might be pistols at dawn fer us(flint only) :haha:
But this aint a game of the best. Fact is caplocks are easier then rock in the locks, but suppositoy guns are eaiser still. A good rock in the lock handled by an experinced shooter will (almost)be as good as a nipple hugger.The fun is getting the best you can get from the limits you impose on your self

 

[dikman]

and most are amazed that flinters can shoot at all.

Had lunch with my brother recently, and my wife mentioned that I had bought a new rifle. Now, my brother hasn't shot a gun since he was in Vietnam, and doesn't have much interest in them anymore, but was rather intrigued by my description of using muzzleloaders (particularly the Remington 1858, he couldn't comprehend how a muzzleloading revolver worked!) so I offered to take him to the range to try them.

What he really liked was the longrifle (I happened to take the flinter). He was amazed at how accurate it was, he didn't believe that something so "primitive" could shoot so well (when it fired that is - I'm still getting used to it).

I should add that, like so many who served in 'Nam, he was left with "issues" - he doesn't like crowds, or guns going off, or going out much. I was a bit concerned about him shooting, but he had a ball and really enjoyed himself. As he said, they don't really sound like the guns he used to use and the discharge didn't really bother him. In fact, he wants to do it again sometime.

Only problem is I did all the loading and was left with all the cleaning (and didn't fire a shot!) :haha: .