R E Davis French fusil

[squirejohn]

Does anyone on the Forum have this fusil? I've been thinking about getting this kit and I'd like to get some info - particularly with respect to balance and barrel weight. I prefer a heavy barrel.
I made this inquiry over six months ago and Tom Patton was the only one who had seen one. Since that time I've been to a couple of "vous" and re-enactments and no one I spoke with has seen, or even heard of this fusil. The only feedback I received was from Joe Hess (sutler)who said due to difficulties getting barrels (48" long) they were behind schedule filling orders.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I've seen the kit, but not the gun assembled. It shouldn't have a heavy barrel at all as it;s pretty thin at the muuzzle, but still being big at the breech as the originals were. I'll be putting one together this summer, I'll post a few phhotos if you guys would like as I buid.
I'm looking forward to the project :thumbsup:

 

[LRB]

Please do so Mike. How is the type G coming.

 

[JOHN ZUREKI]

I am at this time putting this rifle together. I bought it back in March from Tim (R.E. DAVIS) in Kalamazoo,MI. I have the barrel,lock and butt plate done. The stock I bought was walnut. I chose steel furniture. The barrel is 48" long from Ed RAYLE. It is 1 3/16" at the breech. I have not weighed the barrel, but the rifle will total close to nine pounds when done. The butt plate was a chore to inlet for me It came out ok. Steel remember, could not pound it out. The trigger gaurd will be the real test. It is very involved. I have not been able to find a lot of info and pictures that would help. This gun seems to be unique...... In the book EARLY AMERICAN FLINTLOCKS by HARTZLER & WHISKER there ia rifle attributed to THOMAS EARLE that has the same side plate and trigger gaurd on page 43. EARLE was from Massachusetts......? The rifle when done I believe, will handle just fine for me any way. It really is a nice piece. I hope I did right by buying walnut and steel versus maple and brass which is also available. I hope this all helps. If I can answer other questions please ask.

 

[Flintandsteel]

Pike,

Not sure how many would have been steel as opposed to brass. Like most early guns, I believe brass would have been the norm. Just easier to work with.
As far as the stock, walnut would be the right choice if this is supposed to be a French fusil. Unless re-stocked in the states that is.

 

[tg]

You will need to look at the books by Hamilton and Bouchard on French smoothbores to get a feel for what the originals look like as this kit is a French smoothbore hunting gun repro.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Please do so Mike. How is the type G coming.

The stock master pattern is going out this week to get duplicated for the first time. I'll put the first one together to work out the bugs , then it's full speed ahead. They ought to be on the market late in August or early Sept.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I am at this time putting this rifle together. I bought it back in March from Tim (R.E. DAVIS) in Kalamazoo,MI. I have the barrel,lock and butt plate done. The stock I bought was walnut. I chose steel furniture. The barrel is 48" long from Ed RAYLE. It is 1 3/16" at the breech. I have not weighed the barrel, but the rifle will total close to nine pounds when done. The butt plate was a chore to inlet for me It came out ok. Steel remember, could not pound it out. The trigger gaurd will be the real test. It is very involved. I have not been able to find a lot of info and pictures that would help. This gun seems to be unique...... In the book EARLY AMERICAN FLINTLOCKS by HARTZLER & WHISKER there ia rifle attributed to THOMAS EARLE that has the same side plate and trigger gaurd on page 43. EARLE was from Massachusetts......? The rifle when done I believe, will handle just fine for me any way. It really is a nice piece. I hope I did right by buying walnut and steel versus maple and brass which is also available. I hope this all helps. If I can answer other questions please ask.

Walnut is the correct choice for a French gun. Steel would "generally" suggest a higher quality gun. I assume you mean you are building a fowler, not a rifle.
Look in Hamilton's "COLONIAL FRONTIER GUNS" for examples of the furniture you're using on your gun, they are almost exact copies of original french fusil fin parts.

 

I am at this time putting this rifle together. I bought it back in March from Tim (R.E. DAVIS) in Kalamazoo,MI. I have the barrel,lock and butt plate done. The stock I bought was walnut. I chose steel furniture. The barrel is 48" long from Ed RAYLE. It is 1 3/16" at the breech. I have not weighed the barrel, but the rifle will total close to nine pounds when done. The butt plate was a chore to inlet for me It came out ok. Steel remember, could not pound it out. The trigger gaurd will be the real test. It is very involved. I have not been able to find a lot of info and pictures that would help. This gun seems to be unique...... In the book EARLY AMERICAN FLINTLOCKS by HARTZLER & WHISKER there ia rifle attributed to THOMAS EARLE that has the same side plate and trigger gaurd on page 43. EARLE was from Massachusetts......? The rifle when done I believe, will handle just fine for me any way. It really is a nice piece. I hope I did right by buying walnut and steel versus maple and brass which is also available. I hope this all helps. If I can answer other questions please ask.

PIKELAKE, you did well to get the walnut and iron furniture. See Hamilton's book Colonial Frontier Guns and you will find Type C furniture in both brass and iron from archeological digs. The "kit" that R.E. Davis is selling is a measured copy of an original barrel from a french fusil fin. Make 'er slim with no more wood than you need. A massive breech does to necessarily mean a massive stock. Bouchard's book is good for illustrating this slimmness of design. Although the gun below has the Type D furniture on it, the barrel is the same one that you have on yours...

Here is a closer look at the lock and breech area...

 

[Henry]

By " french gun " I take for granted that you mean the " fusil de chasse et de service " ( hunting
and service gun ) used by the militia and allied Indians ?

There were a few variations of that gun, generally made in the city of Tulle , though some were ordered from St Étienne and even from Liège .

From Tulle , there were contracts in 1713 , 1734 , etc . but on average all have the same
appearence , same lock , same stock shape , same caliber .

The barrel lenght may vary from 42 " to 49"
( older ones with longer barrels )
and some were mounted in brass . Few have two
barrel band , most have only one .

All have the same " jambe de vache " ( cow leg )
shaped stock .

Most repro on the market today look like
the one sold by Track of the Wolf
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com...leId=289&partNum=KIT-TULLE-FUSIL-DE-CHASSE-44[/url]

wich is not exactly PC but close enough and made of good quality parts . ( Isn't the lock made by Davis ?)

It does not need a few touch up on both the lock and stock to be more accurate .The lock is about
1/8 " shorter than the original but most people
can live with that .

The parts from Rifle Shoppe are more historically correct ( but the lock plate is stamped St Etienne .. nothing is perfect in this world ) if one wants to live the adventure of ordering from Rifle Shoppe ( actually, I did and survived )

People who are not historical re-enactors
may like to have rifled barrels , strap attachements , rear sight , laser sight ,
chromed or gold plated butt plates as they like ,
just mention that it is an added item and do not
cry murder if turned away from a re-enactment event .

Oh , yes .... the Davis gun is good stuff ,
actually better than the originals .

 

[Okwaho]

I am at this time putting this rifle together. I bought it back in March from Tim (R.E. DAVIS) in Kalamazoo,MI. I have the barrel,lock and butt plate done. The stock I bought was walnut. I chose steel furniture. The barrel is 48" long from Ed RAYLE. It is 1 3/16" at the breech. I have not weighed the barrel, but the rifle will total close to nine pounds when done. The butt plate was a chore to inlet for me It came out ok. Steel remember, could not pound it out. The trigger gaurd will be the real test. It is very involved. I have not been able to find a lot of info and pictures that would help. This gun seems to be unique...... In the book EARLY AMERICAN FLINTLOCKS by HARTZLER & WHISKER there ia rifle attributed to THOMAS EARLE that has the same side plate and trigger gaurd on page 43. EARLE was from Massachusetts......? The rifle when done I believe, will handle just fine for me any way. It really is a nice piece. I hope I did right by buying walnut and steel versus maple and brass which is also available. I hope this all helps. If I can answer other questions please ask.

Walnut is the correct choice for a French gun. Steel would "generally" suggest a higher quality gun. I assume you mean you are building a fowler, not a rifle.
Look in Hamilton's "COLONIAL FRONTIER GUNS" for examples of the furniture you're using on your gun, they are almost exact copies of original french fusil fin parts.

First of all totally disregard mention of Mass. guns and/or those guns built by Thomas Earle. It's like apples and watermelons.

This is a kit I have recommended for some time as the best of the fusil fin kits.I hate the terms C and D preferring to be correct and use the term fusil fin.It's not the greatest kit but it is superior to the others on the market.It was copied from a fusil owned by a collector whom I knew but I haven't seen the original gun I don't think it was in very good shape. I have, however, been able to compare it with an original Fusil fin Ca.1725-35 in my collection.The two guns are remarkably similar with 1 3/16 " breeches and long barrels.Mine has a 46 1/2" barrel and the kit gun has a 48" barrel.Both guns are long slender guns, very similar in their butt architecture,and feature a sighting barrel rib.My gun as well as two other fusils fin that I own are all brass mounted with gold damascening on the barrels.I think that the kit in question could be made into a very nice fusil fin with some judicious wood removal and the right kind of finish.All three guns are stocked in European walnut and if possible I would try to get some European walnut for the kit.American walnut would be OK if the other wood were't available but in no instance should maple be used even if trying to simulate an old restock since about 65-75% of fusils especially the pied de vache hunting guns were restocked during their period of use and with American black walnut.I am in agreement with Mike Brooks that iron generally denotes a higher class French gun but I think that the fusils fin were generally mounted in brass. They were not extremely fine guns although they are sometimes quite gaudy in appearanc.Iron fusil fin furniture is very rare and is probably more likely to be found in Canada since iron didn't hold up very well in Louisiana with the extreme humidity and it's affect on rusting,"The Fusil de Tulle in New France"by Russel bouchard P.36

There were apparently some fusils fin mounted in iron but I believe that such guns were very rare.I also am starting to believe that unless marked "Tulle" many fusils fin were made in Liege.When I got the first of my three fusils fin I assumed that it was made in France.I am now fairly satisfied that this gun along with the second gun was a Liegeoise gun sold to French merchants.The 1749 Montreal Royal Magazine showed an inventory as follows:45 English guns,476 Saint-Etienne guns,256 Liege guns,and 92 Tulle hunting guns,Canadian Arms Journal Vol. No.1 p.10{also note 32},"The Trade Gun In New France" by Russel Bouchard.The Montreal Merchants Records show in 1702 a number of fine fusils,grades 3,4,5. Most of the material illustrated by Hamilton in all his books is archaelogical material and unmarked as to the manufacturer so that it is very difficult to identify the manufacturer.I really believe that the kit gun in question should be brass mounted rather than iron although, as has been pointed out,there were a few iron mounted fusils fin.
Tom Patton

 

[squirejohn]

Thanks Mike, Generally I can hold a "heavy" barrel steadier than a light one, but balance with the relatively long 48" barrel may also facilitate a "steady" hold. I assume other factors such as how much and where wood is removed from the stock, and stock configuration etc. also affect balance. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any way for me to figure out just how well this gun would "fit" me since due to my "crow-bar & mallet skills" I would need to have it assembled by someone else.

 

[Mike Brooks]

It's also important to keep in mind there were several grades of iron mounted guns as well as brass mounted guns. The higher grades had finer engraving and carving. The highest grades had chisled mounts. The locks of the higher grade guns also reflected better craftsmanship, and finer finish. The lowest grade gun locks didn't even have a tumbler bridle.
Also, even the lowest grade brass mounted french guns still had their mounts engraved. It was fairly crude engraving, but engraving non the less. Actually it was pretty "folksy" and not unpleasant to look at.

 

[squirejohn]

Cooner 54 - Would you please tell me the overall length of your fusil and the balance point distance from the muzzle?

 

[dlemaster]

squirejohn
As others have mentioned those fusils are very light and graceful, so make sure there is enough wood removed. The last thing you want is a clunky gun. I made an English trade gun with a 48" barrel that was 1 1/8" in the breech and it came out weighing right at 7 lbs.
The balance point on mine is right where my left hand is when it is at my shoulder for shooting.

Regards, Dave

 

[Mike Brooks]

squirejohn
As others have mentioned those fusils are very light and graceful, so make sure there is enough wood removed. The last thing you want is a clunky gun. I made an English trade gun with a 48" barrel that was 1 1/8" in the breech and it came out weighing right at 7 lbs.
The balance point on mine is right where my left hand is when it is at my shoulder for shooting.

Regards, Dave

I just weighed my "type G" pattern gun with all of the parts attatched and the forestock still square with a 47 1/4" barrel and it weighs just under 6lbs!

 

[JOHN ZUREKI]

I WAS'NT TRYING TO COMPARE T. EARLE"S GUN WITH THE FUSIL FIN THAT I AM WORKING ON, I JUST FIND IT INTRIGUING THAT THEY SHARE THE SAME SIDE PLATE AND TRIGGER GUARD. THE TRIGGER GUARD FOR THE FUSIL FIN IS NOT GENERIC BY ANY STRETCH. IF YOU CAN LOOK AT EARLE'S GUN AND THE FUSIL KIT YOU'LL KNOW WHAT I MEAN. THERE WAS QUITE A FEW YEARS BETWEEN THE FRENCH GUN AND THOMAS EARLE. BY THE WAY, THIS GUN WHEN DONE WILL WEIGH LESS THAN I INTIALLY GUESSED.

 

[Mike Brooks]

The New England gunmakers were heavily influenced by the frnch fufil fin, and share alot of charicteristics.

 

[JOHN ZUREKI]

Thanks, Mr. Brooks that was what I was expecting.

 

[John Tice]

Does anyone have any ideas why New England gunmakers were so influenced by the French guns? They seemed to have copied the stock style as well as the furniture.