Pure Lead....not HC???

[VTdeerhunter]

I seem to be in the minority in most of the discussions around here about what we all cast our patched round balls out of”¦I have read comments by those who are adamant about using only pure lead in doing so. I will admit (without shame) that I am at the very other end of the spectrum”¦ I use what I can find, what people give me or what I can recycle, some is pure, some not so pure”¦but the animals I shoot never seem to complain about either”¦

My question is when did the “need” to shoot only pure lead happen??? Like many of you, I have read lots of books about the time period that we love”¦they have descriptions of “secret lead mines” or “areas where lead could be found growing out of the ground”. Even if they bought their lead from town, or the fort or the rendezvous, it was far from “pure lead”.

Pure led is a modern day achievement, there is no way that the personas that we strive to mimic had anything in their ball bags even close to what many of you claim to be the only balls that you will shoot”¦.

Lead is a common element in the earth’s crustal materials, found in an abundance of about 130 parts per million”¦but even metallic lead (semi-pure) is rarely found. Lead is found mixed in ore; normally mined with zinc, silver and copper. The main lead mineral is galena which still only contains 86.6% lead. Man made metallic lead, that results from the roasting and blast furnace processes still contains significant contaminants of; arsenic, antimony, bismuth, zinc, copper, silver, gold and others. If the melt is then treated in a reverberatory furnace with air, steam, and sulfur, it will further oxidize most of the contaminants except silver, gold, and bismuth.

The Parks Process, used to remove silver and gold from lead was not invented until 1850. The Betts process, processing smelted lead electrolytically was not invented until 1901. And the Betterton-Kroll process, used to remove the bismuth from the lead was not invented until 1922.

Like many of you on this forum, I was taught to re-use, reallocate and recycle everything you could, rather than throw out and buy new. We turn old files into knives that we are proud to carry; we turn animal hides into footwear, clothing, bags, and straps”¦antlers into handles, powder measures and buttons”¦old clothes into patches and liners to our shooting bags and haversacks”¦.pieces of broken steel get smithed into countless necessary tools....but we only shoot pure lead????

 

[Rifleman1776]

Yer opinion is yers. Carry on.
For my part, I'll continue to use the purest and softest lead I can find and call it "pure".

 

[F.G. Ford]

You can shoot hard lead in a smooth bore, without any problems, it may even shoot better.
In a rifle, you like a tight ball and patch situation to grip the lead ball, to assist in picking up the rifleing.
When the powder the ignites,expanding gasses expand the soft lead marginally to greater seal the bore.
Much research has gone into this theory.
Well patched balls exibit patch material weave, and well defined rifleing impressions on the lead round ball.
Most match shooters follow this principal verl closely.
I have never seen competition shooters useing hard lead balls.
Old Ford

 

[Sperit de bois]

Good thing for me you pointed that out.
How would it be,if foolish me,was to offer almost 100 lbs on nonpure lead to another shooter.
Why I'd have to switch to an inline just to have a "friend"
I been shooting "what ever" since before "ever",,been working so far.
Though I do have one 98 lb bar of pure lead,keel weight, in it's prior life,Reserve stock for when friends come over.
With pure lead getting more difficult to find ,might have to shoot "impure" for fun and "pure" for serious.

 

[fire-n-brimstone]

Because pure lead is Bridger Approved.


Andy

 

[BrownBear]

Like many of you on this forum, I was taught to re-use, reallocate and recycle everything you could, rather than throw out and buy new.

Yup. I'm sitting on over a ton of lead alloy collected from the backstops of an indoor range, and have been asked to pick up another ton. All free. I've been using it mostly to cast large halibut weights and jigs, but have run a couple of hundred 54 cal round balls for trial shoots.

So far the only thing I notice is needing to use a little thinner patch. Groups are the same size as pure lead and hit the same spots. Goodenuff fer me.

I'm also sitting on about 500 pounds of pure lead. Startin to look like the best thing to do with it is sell it at a premium price to someone who swears nothing else will work. Then I'll put the cash into another new gun to shoot my alloy balls. Talk about recycling! :rotf:

 

[Dphar]

Many American rifles have land groove ratios that were not compatible with hard lead. So people started to believe that only pure lead worked.
Never mind that people were shooting hard lead in the late 18th and early 19th century at heavy game in Africa and India.
I have a number of rifles that will use hard lead if need be. But the old "equal lands and grooves" idea does not work well with hard lead.
Hear is another thing to consider, hardened lead, even in the 1920s-30s may have been harder to get than pure lead.
If the rifle will load hard alloys, like wheel weights, you will likely find it shoots as well or better than pure lead. I use a slightly thinner patch with hard lead than soft, depending on the rifle. For one thing hardened lead will cast a slightly larger ball from the same mould than pure lead does.
Pure lead only in MLs is an old wives tale. Its valid with some rifles but not with others
Dan

 

...but we only shoot pure lead????

You're the one saying that. Why make it a "you vs. them" situation? How about giving an opinion about what they shot "back then", without making it a confrontation? People here seem to shoot whatever they wish.

 

[Zonie]

I think your confusing "recommend" with "rule".

Most muzzleloading rifle shooters feel they get better accuracy using the purest lead for their roundballs/bullets so they recommend it to other shooters.

I suppose there are a few of them who, for one reason or another, have made it a rule to always use pure lead.

Occasionally there are some who think their way is the only way so if their "rule" of using pure lead is good enough for them then it's obvious (to them) it must be a rule for everyone.

IMO, anyone who can think for themselves will do whatever they want to do.

As for "pure lead" being used prior to the 20th century you are correct.
Very few scientists had the means of analyzing the chemical makeup of lead alloys so the presence of other materials would have gone unnoticed.

I don't have any documentation for my thoughts but if I got into my "Wayback Machine" and went back in time, I wouldn't be surprised to hear some shooters saying,
"Ye evar shoot any o' ole' man Barkly's lead from his mine? Hardest loading manure ah ever tried ta shoot.
Now, ye take some lead from tha Gillespie's mine! Boy! Thar's a world of difference fur loading. Jus' seems ta' pour down the barrel and shoot? Why ah could pick a tick offen a coon dogs ass at 40 yards an he wouldn't even know it war gone!"

 

[Matt85]

i dont see pure lead as a requirement for shooting round balls. heck, a member here is now shooting brass balls. if a brass ball will shoot in his rifle just as accuratly as lead then it obviously doesnt matter how hard the lead is.

now minie balls are a different story, i dont see a minie ball working well if the skirt isnt soft enough to open to meet the rifling lands.

 

[Greenjoytj]

I use a hand cast nominal .535" ball size that actually mic's to .5365" to .5375" plus .0175" patch in my 54 cal. rifle.

This is a tight PRB combo in my rifle, read that as real tough to start into the bore. It takes a whack with a small dead blow hammer, but I get super tight groups.

If I was to use a hard lead alloy then starting a ball into the bore would be a nightmare that I don't want. So put me down as a soft lead user, yes I have to buy it from a metal supplier and it is expensive, but it make my rifle shoot as intended.

I think PRB shooters shooting under sized balls because of the hard lead alloy their using for want of ease of loading are short changing themselves, they would be amazed at the small groups their rifles are capable off if only they used a tight fitting PRB combo. Only soft lead will make that happen with the least amount of loading effort.

 

[stone knife]

I bought 80 lbs of plumbers lead real cheap, so I think I'll be using that :thumbsup:

 

[Rev_William]

Out of curiosity has there been any analysis' done on any of the found historical balls and lead stock?

 

[BrownBear]

Out of curiosity has there been any analysis' done on any of the found historical balls and lead stock?

That was my immediate thought on reading this.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I don't believe it's all that hard to refine Galena (aka lead sulfide). The mineral matrix is just lead and sulphur, and the sulphur burns/vaporizes off at lead melting temperatures or perhaps slightly higher.

 

[LaBonte]

Out of curiosity has there been any analysis' done on any of the found historical balls and lead stock?

many moons ago I had some original (circa 1840-1850's era) lead bars sold for casting balls tested and none were pure lead, all were "contaminted" with various trace minerals such as sulphur, zinc, cadmium, antimony, and silver not to any large degree, but still not pure.

 

[hanshi]

Ball cast from WW metal works like a charm in smoothbores. I see no reason the same harder lead alloy can't work in rifles just as well as soft lead. It's the patch that spins the ball. Hollow base minies use a different principle in rifles for their use. I will be casting up some .36 & .40 ball out of WWs soon. They should perform with excellence on small game.

On larger game WW ball is fine in the big - let's say .54 - .62 and larger - calibers. Expansion is desirable when shooting deer with .40 - .50. However, it appears that lead, if it scratches with a thumbnail, is just the ticket in rifles. If it's too hard to scratch (linotype) I wouldn't hesitate to use it.

 

[54ball]

OK,
Lead out of a 18th Century mine was not "pure." It had a lot of impurties.

Was the lead soft or hard?

I do know that bismuth, silver and gold are relatively soft. Then you have copper and zinc which are harder.
These would be in trace ammounts if not, would it be gold, silver, zinc, bismuth or copper ore contaminated with lead ?

How does impure lead 200 years ago justify the modern alloys in wheel weights which can be very hard?

I think history shows even the impure lead from two centuries ago was soft, pretty close to the "pure" lead today.

 

[necchi]

Oohh!
Well put 54ball, it goes back to the question Rev and Brown Bear had,,

 

[fire-n-brimstone]

I think that would be determined on what you personally consider accurate. I do not shoot competition, I only hunt. So my idea of accuracy is most likely way dfferent than your.

Andy