Pedersoli 1861 Springfield, need help.

[badpenny]

your musket has one turn in 72 inches. it won't stabilize a minnie worth a dern. it's good for round balls. lyman makes a 315 grain minnie that was developed for the 1 in 72 inch twist

 

[BillinOregon]

Badpenny, I agree the slower twists can be more finicky when it comes to stabilizing elongated bullets, but the three-band Enfield so widely used in the Civil War had a 1:78 twist and it certainly inflicted its share of casualties with minie and Pritchett.

 

[badpenny]

that's true but i've often wondered how much was due to volley fire and how much was aimed fire. i know with my 3 band i can keep all my shots in the center of the chest at 100 yards. but if his shots were going sideways it makes me suspect the minnies aren't stabelized due to twis

 

[59sharps]

Suggest you go to the NSS-A Board and try to tell them that!

 

[ResearchPress]

your musket has one turn in 72 inches. it won't stabilize a minnie worth a dern. it's good for round balls.

During the 1860s in England the Long Enfield with its 1 in 78 twist was used by members of the Rifle Volunteer Corps for target shooting competition at ranges commonly out to 600 yards. This included the 1st Stage of the Queen's Prize fired during the NRA Annual Rifle Meeting. Not bad going for something that won't stabilse.

In the UK today, the MLAGB holds National Championship matches for Enfield rifles out to 600 yards. A club I belong to holds an aggregate for military muzzle loaders fired at 600 and 800 yards. Long and Short Enfield Rifles are used; the disadvantage with the Long Rifle appears more to be associated with how close to the eye the rear sight is, which makes it difficult for some to see.

Long Range Shooting with the Military Muzzle Loading Rifle

David

 

[Wes/Tex]

that's true but i've often wondered how much was due to volley fire and how much was aimed fire. i know with my 3 band i can keep all my shots in the center of the chest at 100 yards. but if his shots were going sideways it makes me suspect the minnies aren't stabelized due to twis

Don't want to make it sound like we're beating you up but the twist rate thing gets misunderstood very easily. Like the oft misquoted ideas about 1-48" twist, it's the type and depth of rifling rather than the actual rate of the rifling twist that determines how much 'accuracy' will show up. Believe me, it took many "Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot" moments to get that idea to sink in.
Another mis-applied term is the idea of bullets tumbling in flight. The projectile isn't really doing "cartwheels" in the air, it's flying nose-on but the rear is beginning to make a wobbling circle compared to the nose. It's this stability, or 'at the edge of stability', that causes it to immediately tumble on contact with something even as thin and light as paper. Sometimes application makes a liar of us all. :thumbsup:

 

[59sharps]

interesting. I've seen lots of what looked to be perfect 90deg keyholes never knew or thought that it wasn't already that way when it hit the paper. I just assumed that they were so unstable that by the time they got there the were tumbling and never thought to questioned it. just knew it was like lack of accuracy, it was caused my 1 or more problems.
and if you really think about it the list is simple, its the combination that can drive you nuts.
hard lead, undersized minnie,voids in minnie, blown skirt in barrel, lube lube lube, power charge,worn out barrel. worn out nipple, last and not to often breach threads run past the end of breach. Had this on both my sons and my colt muskets. shot well but every once in a while would throw a flyer, noticed while cleaning patchs would stick on the bottom. Gave both to Bobby Hoyt to check out. He fixed the problem.

 

[badpenny]

exactly the ball is ocillating rather than turning on it's true axis. my point is that a lighter(shorter) minnie should stabilize better with that slower pitch.

 

[Wes/Tex]

:thumbsup:

 

[ken.clements]

Fellas,

I got a brand new 1861 Pedersoli Springfield. The Dixie catalogue recommends a .575 minie. I already own a Lyman .575213 mould. I cast some rounds and went to the range. I thought they would fly well because they seem to fit just right in the barrel. No luck. They are tumbling end over end down range with no accuracy at all. Doing a search on Youtube, I saw some French guy in France shooting the same rifle by Pedersoli after he had put his rounds through a sizing die. Is this what I need to do? Wouldn't that make the rounds even less accurate? I need guidance because as it stands now, my Brown Bess is much more accurate than my Springfield.

First = weigh your minie's, everything over/under 0.05% is another group (group = 5 Minie's). Only pur lead (tip = roofing lead)
Second = Sizing 0.001 smaller than the bore.
Third = first shot always goes somewhere else as the rest, hence fouling shot.
Powder = start with 35 grain 3f Powder, 5 shots per Minie weight (step 1). Wipe between group (5 shots). Raise the powder 2,5 grains do everything again. I suggest Swiss Powder.
Targets = write everything on the Target before you shoot (weight, grains). Compare all targets at liesure, measuring the group size. The two closest is the area where you have to work in 1 grain incraments.
Target load ist different from Hunting load. Target as light as possible for accuracy and length of shooting match. (cheaper, easier on the shoulder, etc.)
Benchrest Shooting = the only way to go for working up a load. start at 50 Meters (Yards), find the most accurate target load, then 100 Meters.
good luck.

 

[Chris Sweeney]

I shoot an original 63 Springfield in N-SSA competition. My preferred load is a 575213 over 43 grains of FFFg Goex. not sure what my twist is - think it's 1 in 60-something, but I have other muskets ranging from 1 in 72 to 1 in 48 that also shoot this load well. The only problem I have ever had with keyholeing was when I got some lead from someone. I tested it with the scratch and squeeze method and it seemed OK, but it would print a 90 degree keyhole about 3 ft. below POA @ 50 yds. Took some bullets to a friend who had a hardness tester and they came out @ 7 1/2 to 8 BHn (Pure lead is somewhere between 5.5 and 6). A little bit of tin or antimony in the mix makes a big difference. I've used bullets that were 2 or 3 thou. undersize and, while they didn't group all that good, they didn't keyhole like the hard ones did.

I've since gone and bought a LEE hardness tester and check every batch of lead before I cast.