Parker Hale 1853 Three Band

[Catof9tails]

A friend of mine gave out my phone number to a guy wanting to sell a Parker Hale 1853 Three Band. The seller stated the barrel is at least 98% and stock is in great condition with a couple nick marks on the wood where the ram rod enters. I'm told it's .577 cal. with engraved/stamped "Parker-Hale" ahead of hammer and crown over "PH" on tail. Barrel is marked "Parker Hale LTD Birmingham England". He bought it off a kin folk under distressed economic times in 2009, but he has never shot it and claims to know nothing about it. Comes with a Parker Hale bullet mold and papers/no box. He said it has a 1:48 twist according to manual. I haven't seen this muzzleloader yet but was it made by Navy Arms, Italian made, what would one pay for it for fair market value? Any info would be helpful. Don't know much about this type of muzzleloader. I'm more of a Hawken/Great Plains patch and Ball guy. Thanks, Cat9

 

[59sharps]

check some of the suttler prices then deside wha is worth to you I would say used about $450 or so w/ mold

 

[Coot]

The early P-H replicas were made in Birmingham, England beginning in the 1970s and are of superb quality. I have heard that at some point production shifted to either Italy or India & the quality went way down. If the gun offered is an English made P-H and in 98-99%, Gunbroker prices have run in the $625-$725 range. The most recent original P-H English made mold (in excellent condiition) went for $95 on Ebay.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If the barrel of the rifle was made EITHER in England or Italy, there will be Proof Marks on the underside of the barrel. You will find a Chart at the top of the index page here, that will give you the proof marks for both England( Birmingham), and Italy. Use that information to determine what you are being asked to buy.

The older Parker Hale guns have a good reputation for quality and accuracy. If this gun is in as good a condition as you have described, its a good "FIND". Buy it! :thumbsup:

 

[Catof9tails]

I appolgize if I ran these questions too early provided I have not seen the 1853 Parker Hale in person. I really appreciate your info and appears I need to see it in person so I can provide more accurate information. I've searched the internet for info but didn't find anything of much help. However, your comments did help me to confirm some markings. Thank you. Cat9

 

[Catof9tails]

Thanks for the reply. Going to need some help finding the index for the markings cause I could not find it at the top of the page. Also does the barrel need be removed to see these markings? Thanks, Cat9

 

[Jason Lewis]

if it is a real parker hale, it will have the parker hale cartouche on the butt stock. also, it's it's italian it will have made in italy stamped somewhere in the brass trigger guard. i don't think it actually has a 1-48" twist either, if it's a PH it should have a 1-78" twist for a P53.

otherwise i would suspect it'a a euroarms that is stamped as a PH. still should be a good shooter.

 

[Catof9tails]

Thanks for mentioning the cartouche mark. I failed to mention the seller stated there is a cartouche mark on the right side of the butt stock. When I get to see the rifle I'll check the trigger guard for markings. Thank you for your comments. Cat9

 

[TFoley]

Thanks for mentioning the cartouche mark. I failed to mention the seller stated there is a cartouche mark on the right side of the butt stock. When I get to see the rifle I'll check the trigger guard for markings. Thank you for your comments. Cat9

If it has Birmingham proof marks it is very probably a genuine Parker-Hale. However, depending on the serial number, it might just be one of the last lot of barrels that went to Euroarms in Italy for assembly.

David Minshall needs to know the serial # to check it out.

tac

 

[Catof9tails]

Sorry for the late reply. The guy took awhile to get back to me. Serial number is 6200 and the cartouche on the right side of the butt stock is a circle and within the circle is "Parker Hale LTD". The guy also states the bullet mold is stamped Parker Hale. Does this info help? Thanks, Cat9

 

[damron]

if its in the 6200 range its full English.IMHO with the mold its in the $450-$500 range.

George

 

[ken.clements]

The early P-H replicas were made in Birmingham, England beginning in the 1970s and are of superb quality. I have heard that at some point production shifted to either Italy or India & the quality went way down. If the gun offered is an English made P-H and in 98-99%, Gunbroker prices have run in the $625-$725 range. The most recent original P-H English made mold (in excellent condiition) went for $95 on Ebay.

1970 (?) Parker Hale sold out and Euroarms bought alle parts and rights to Parker Hale. Euroarms continued to build Parker Hale rifles with the existing pieces made in the UK. They now build rifles with the markings of PH.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Go back to the Index page to this forum. Go up to a box near the top marked " Member Resources". Towards the bottom of that section, you will see a thread marked, "Articles, Charts and Links." The chart you need is located in the list of charts.

To you and all new members to this forum- Please take some time to ROAM thru the threads at the top. It seems like we get someone claiming they don't know how to post pictures on this forum about every other day, when clear directions are right near the top of the Index Page! Conversion tables to allow you to convert metric measurements to inches are here too.

Claude has made a considerable effort to gather ARTICLES that answer a lot of new member questions. There are very specific topic Articles posted at the top of each thread, too.

Can't find something? LINKs has a long list of venders of every conceivable product. Almost all have a website with some kind of catalog.

So welcome to the forums, but do yourself a favor and read what we already have posted for your convenience to help you use the site easier. Trust us when we assure you that you will still come up with more pointed questions. :grin: :wink:

 

[Catof9tails]

Yep I checked the list of charts and nope I'm not posting pics. As I stated earlier I have not seen the muzzleloader yet due to matching up time with the seller. The seller does not know much of anything on this type of muzzleloader or any muzzleloader for that matter. Therefore he does not know where to look for factory stampings. I was waiting for Tac to chime in on the serial number to determine if it's England or assembled England parts in Italy with Euroarms. Nonetheless, thanks for you comments. Cat9

 

[ResearchPress]

If the serial number is 6200 I estimate it is British made c1982. If you buy the rifle and ever remove barrel from stock there will be a tiny date code after the proof load information, two tiny letters and a number between crossed swords or in a circle. If you let me know this code I can tell you the year that the barrel was proofed.

i don't think it actually has a 1-48" twist either, if it's a PH it should have a 1-78" twist for a P53.

Ref. the above comment, this is not correct. Parker-Hale actually manufactured some P.53s with 1 in 48 rifling. These I think were largely exported to the US.

David

 

[Jason Lewis]

i didn't know that, i wonder why they would bother making some with a 1-48" twist?

 

[ResearchPress]

i wonder why they would bother making some with a 1-48" twist?

I think the perception was that the 1 in 48 would improve accuracy. The MLAGB here in the UK banned them from their Enfield rifle competitions which are for Pattern arms. The 1 in 48 is a modern 'hybrid' and does not replicate a Pattern 1853 Rifle Musket.

David

 

[Texas77]

Hi David,

I just recently acquired a few PH Enfields....could you possibly tell me if they might be the few that were made with the 1-48 rifling twist? If not could you steer me in the right direction where I could find this infomation?

Thanks

 

[ResearchPress]

You should be able to get an approximate measure of the rifling twist by pushing a tight fitting patched cleaning rod down the barrel. Mark the rod at the muzzle and slowly with draw it. Measure the length from muzzle to mark at a quarter turn and multiply by 4 or at half a turn and multiply by 2.

There's no specific serial number batch for these rifles. If you let me know serial numbers I should be able to estimate approximate age. Better still if you ever remove barrel from stock and can identify the tiny code (two letters and a number) on the underside of the barrel after the proof load information I can tell you what year the barrel was proofed.

PM me if you want to follow this up.

David

 

[dml]

You might try the NSSA forum. There are people there who are "experts" on the subject.
http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/forumdisplay.php?8-Civil-War-Small-Arms