oil tan leather

[Artificer]

I visited our local Tandy Store in the new location and sure enough I waited too long for one of the sales. (Story of my life.) At least I was able to pick up some items/supplies I needed and had a chance to look over the Stoned Oil and Kodiak Oil Tanned Leathers that Brown Bear has mentioned he likes to use for Shot Pouches/Shooting bags. So everyone knows what leathers I am referring to, I linked them below.
Stoned Oil Sides, 4 to 4.5 oz. https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/stoned-oil-cowhide-leather-sides
Kodiak, 4 to 5 oz https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/kodiak-oil-tanned-cowhide-leather-sides

My first impression when looking at them was, “These are NOT the Oil Tanned leathers I remembered from the 70’s/80’s.” The colour goes all the way through the leather nicely and they were not nearly as “oily” as I remember oil tanned leather. So that was a very good thing.

Now, I was taken aback that the hides were not as thick as I would expect in the Ounce size ranges mentioned and thinner than comparable Veg Tanned Leather in the same ranges. The Stoned Oil Hides were more like 3 to 3 1/2 oz. had they been Veg Tanned and the Kodiak hides were more like 3 1/2 oz. to 4 oz. or only slightly thicker. The Kodiak hides were noticeably thicker, but not by much at all. ( I do want to say I am not a full time leather worker. So someone else who is a full time leather worker may be a little more accurate than I, in these estimates.)

OK, so why did the leather seem thinner than the “regular” thickness one might expect in that Oz. weight of Veg Tanned leather? The very knowledgeable Lady who assisted me, explained that due to the Oils/Waxes put into these hides, they were heavier than comparable thicknesses of Veg Tanned Leather that does not have the Oils/Waxes in it. I am so used to the Oz. designations of leather meaning a certain thickness, that I forgot it was from the actual weight of the leather. Sort of a duuhh moment for me, but very important to know.

Next, I was extremely eager to feel the Temper of the leather to see how flexible it was. My first Shooting Pouch I made was of the wrong Temper leather (too flexible), before I knew better, and all it did was fold in on itself when I reached inside to get something. (All that work and it proved useless as a Shooting Bag.) Well, I was in for some surprises here as well.

The thinner Stoned Oil Sides had what I consider a better Temper than the thicker Kodiak Sides. Now, THAT just did not make sense, at first. However, it all has to do with how the smooth/grain side of the leather is finished. The thicker Kodiak sides had machine worked graining and the thinner Stone Oiled Hides were smooth. That impressed worked graining on the thicker Kodiak Hides work-softens the leather, so it made it more flexible than had it not been done. Further, I have to say I did not like the look of the machine worked graining for a Shooting Pouch/Bag. It did not stand out as much on the Brown Kodiak Sides, but it REALLY stood out on the Black Kodiak Sides. Now I realize for those who are not concerned about making a more period correct looking pouch, the machine worked graining on the Kodiak hides doesn’t mean anything. For those who are concerned about a more correct appearance and texture, the Stoned Oil Sides are the way to go, IMO.

Period “Stuffed” Leather was smooth on the grain/smooth side and they hand worked oils and waxes into the leather, especially on the rough/flesh side. Though this process is done mainly by machines with the Stoned Oil Sides, I found that leather to be a very good imitation of period leather and in a thickness that many people prefer for a Shooting Pouch/Bag. So now I am going to watch the monthly sales pamphlets and see when the Stoned Oil Sides come up on sale. Personally, I will pass on the Kodiak Oiled Sides for reasons mentioned above, though they seem like they would make a good leather for those who are not concerned about a more period correct leather.

My thanks to Brown Bear for a very good tip on the Stoned Oil Hides. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

My pleasure Gus. It's dandy stuff, for sure.

And thanks to you for a very careful and thorough evaluation of the comparison. While I agree with everything you've said, I've never gone to the trouble to put it into words.

Funny story about the stoned oiled. Our little local post office used to use one of its glass display cases to highlight the work of local artists now and then. Knowing I worked leather and made smoke, the postmaster asked me to do a display. I showed up with all the right stuff including a GPR kit gun I'd assembled, and the postmaster was a little taken aback by the scuffed up shooting bag. He asked if I didn't have anything that wasn't "worn out." I said wait a minute, pulled out a handkerchief and quickly buffed the bag. Looked brand new and he stood there with his mouth hanging open.

I really like that aspect of the stoned oiled. It gets pretty scroungy looking in a hurry when passing through brush and getting bounced around. But you can return it to "new" in a few seconds with a soft rag.

 

[Artificer]

It was a lot of fun learning something new about a type of leather I had never worked with before. I will never be as experienced or knowledgeable a leather worker as our departed forum member LaBonte was, nor CaptJas and others are, but I realized if I didn’t know much of this info on Oil Tanned leather, many new people to working period leather would not have a clue on it. Further, since some forum members don’t have access to a local Tandy or other Leather Supplier, it is a bit of a manure shoot for them when they order leather they have never felt or seen.

I think the most important points I learned were:

A. Oil Tanned Leather is not “oily” to the touch. Though not quite as dry as Veg Tanned when you first buy it, it is plenty “dry” enough to not to have to worry about the oil/wax in it will bleed into the items one carries in a Shooting Pouch/Bag. So one is not sacrificing something to get the added benefit of added water resistance with the Oil Tanned leather for outdoor use.

B. Due to the added weight of the Oil/Wax in the leather, Oil Tanned Leather is not as thick as the same Oz. size in Veg Tanned Leather and that is a GOOD thing. What is important about that to newer leather workers is when they read that period shot pouches were often of 3 Oz to 3 ½ Oz leather, they look at the listed Oz. size of Oil Tanned Leather and wonder/think/believe it is thicker than what they should have for a good repro period Shooting Pouch/Bag. (I know I wondered about that, myself.) In fact, Oil Tanned leather in a slightly larger Oz. size can be or is going to be the thickness they want/need.

C. It is VERY important to know whether the surface of the grain/smooth side of the Oiled Tanned leather is smooth when you get it or if it has been “machine worked or grained.” This because if the grain/smooth side has been “machine worked or grained,” it will have a softer Temper and be more flexible than what one may or probably would want, besides not being authentic to the period. It is usually no problem if the leather is a bit too firm when one first gets it because you can work/bend/flex it as you desire. But as far as I know, you cannot make leather that is already too flexible into something more firm.

With these things in mind, I decided I would make up a list of questions I will ask if/when I order Oil Tanned Leather from a supplier and cannot look at it and feel it in person. I hope I am not presuming too much that this list would also be useful to others.

1. No matter what the advertised Oz. weight is stated for the leather, what is the actual thickness of the leather? Now leather is not and never will be perfectly even in thickness throughout the hide, but it is good to know what range of thickness that is. For example, if I was looking for something in the 3oz to 3 ½ Oz. range for a Shooting Pouch/Bag, that means I would be want the leather to be between 3/64”/.0469” and .055” thick. 4 Oz. at 1/16” might/would be a bit too thick for some, though I personally don’t mind it that thick for Shooting Bags I make.

Now I would never expect a leather supplier to actually get out a pair of dial calipers or micrometers and measure around a hide, but this is the kind of information I would explain to the Supplier on what I want. That helps the Supplier better understand and supply you with what you want. The link below shows what the general size thickness of leather one gets for each Oz. size. http://oldleathershoe.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/ThicknessConversion.png

2. Is the Grain/Smooth side of the leather smooth or has it been “machine worked/grained/impressed?” To make the most authentic period Shooting Bags and other things AND to help ensure the Temper of the leather will be what I want, I want the Grain/Smooth Side of the leather left “natural” or smooth. I DO NOT want it to have been machine worked/grained/impressed, though there was some types of this work done by hand in the period. If I want that sort of period finish work on the leather, I will do it myself.

3. If I was still a little bit unsure of what the Supplier had, I would offer to pay for a scrap piece to see if their leather is what I want. Now, not every Supplier can or will do that and that doesn’t make their leather “bad,” but before I sink the cost of what a half or whole hide costs, I want to be fairly sure of what I am getting. Personally, I am inclined to pay a little more money per piece of leather to get what I want rather than getting a piece that won’t suit what I want to do with it. This after having gotten something I didn’t want at the time and having to eventually wait to use it for other things, while I had to find what I wanted elsewhere.

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

Stoned oiled sides are on web special now at $89.99 or almost half price right here.

 

[Artificer]

Ah, a dastardly plot to allow the guardian moths out of my wallet and let some money escape.

I don't know if I saw the Tan Colour or not, I think I saw the Dark Brown.

Decisions, decisions.......

Thanks for the heads up.

Gus

 

[jamieorr]

Stoned oiled sides are on web special now at $89.99 or almost half price right here.

I've been following your discussion, just got all carried away and ordered a side - some sticker shock after exchange, shipping and taxes, but Thanks! I think....

Jamie

 

[BrownBear]

Ah, a dastardly plot to allow the guardian moths out of my wallet and let some money escape.

I think you're the first to take the bait! I've remarked on the stuff here and there for 10 years now, but always got the raspberry. Dunno about the tan, but I hope you and Jamie like it as much as I do.

Just returned from a rainy day on the water, and my fishing bag made from the stuff (Funny how much it resembles a shooting bag!) stayed nice and dry inside. Guys get kinda interested in those fishing bags when they run into me on rainy rivers. :grin:

 

[Artificer]

I think you're the first to take the bait! I've remarked on the stuff here and there for 10 years now, but always got the raspberry. Dunno about the tan, but I hope you and Jamie like it as much as I do.

In my own case, I have always tried to be as authentic as possible and for as much as I or others knew at the time. Even so, many things we thought were correct or good in the 70's, are almost laughable when I look back now on them. So I am trying not to make similar mistakes.

I originally purchased a copy of “The LEATHERWORKER in Eighteenth Century WILLIAMSBURG” in the mid 70’s and though I read it a number of times, I missed the connection of what they called “Stuffed Leather” to what we call “Oiled Leather.” It really has only been from recent discussions of that pamphlet/book and Oiled Leather, that the nearly burnt out light bulb finally went on.

One other question I have is if you have ever tried to stain the Tan Stoned Oil Sides? If it would work, I imagine it would need a spirit stain like Fiebing makes?

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

One other question I have is if you have ever tried to stain the Tan Stoned Oil Sides? If it would work, I imagine it would need a spirit stain like Fiebing makes?

Never tried it, but from what I've read you are in the ballpark, I bet. I have used Sharpies (brown or black) on cut edges, and that seems to take fine and persist. Can't say a thing about how evenly a stain would take on the flat surface though.

 

[jamieorr]

N jj

Ah, a dastardly plot to allow the guardian moths out of my wallet and let some money escape.

I think you're the first to take the bait! I've remarked on the stuff here and there for 10 years now, but always got the raspberry. Dunno about the tan, but I hope you and Jamie like it as much as I do.

Just returned from a rainy day on the water, and my fishing bag made from the stuff (Funny how much it resembles a shooting bag!) stayed nice and dry inside. Guys get kinda interested in those fishing bags when they run into me on rainy rivers. :grin:

The doctor tells me that I'm ripe for back surgery and I'm not getting out much. Instead, I started spending far too much time online, now I'm spending far too much money on line! Ordered a book on shooting bags, threw in another on horns (need to buy a horn now too). Then next time I went into my mail Amazon sent me a note saying here's another book you might like and darned if they weren't right!

I seem to have lost control of my life but at least it's not dull. Looking forward to my new career in leatherwork. Thanks again for heads up on the leather, came at a good time.

Jamie

 

[BrownBear]

You are sooooo hooked! Always a good thing. :thumbsup:

 

[Artificer]

One other question I have is if you have ever tried to stain the Tan Stoned Oil Sides? If it would work, I imagine it would need a spirit stain like Fiebing makes?

Never tried it, but from what I've read you are in the ballpark, I bet. I have used Sharpies (brown or black) on cut edges, and that seems to take fine and persist. Can't say a thing about how evenly a stain would take on the flat surface though.

Well, I forgot to see if my local Tandy had Fiebing's black leather balm with atom wax and since I am about to go over some black leather items I made, I went back to the store. Nope, darn it, they don't carry it anymore. OK, the neutral will have to do and I will just have to pour some out into a separate container so I don’t contaminate the bottle.

So I asked about dyeing the Tan Stoned Oil leather and they said they did not think it would work well, even after deglazing. So I looked at the color again and am not sure if it is dark enough for what I want to do. Might have to wait to see when the next time they put the Dark Brown Colour sides on sale.

Still, I very much appreciate your info and learning about these Stoned Oil sides and look forward to trying them in the future.
Gus

 

[jamieorr]

You are sooooo hooked! Always a good thing. :thumbsup:

So true! Leather arrived a few minutes ago - looks and smells just fine! Still waiting on the books.

It's a good morning.

Jamie

 

[Chevythunderman]

How many square feet is the leather you just got in. They say they average 20 sq ft but curious as to how many it actually was..

 

[jamieorr]

How many square feet is the leather you just got in. They say they average 20 sq ft but curious as to how many it actually was..

Well, it's an irregular shape so I'm only guessing, but I'd say that in the body I've got 14 or 15 usable square feet, with some more odd bits at the edges, then maybe another 4 square feet in the neck area. I think 20 overall would be pushing it, at best it would include a lot of small scraps that would be hard to use as part of a bigger project. Does that make sense?

Note that I'm not complaining here, just trying to compare what I got to what you were told you could expect. I wasn't expecting any specific amount and I'm happy with what I've got. If it averages 20 sq ft, then half the time its going to be less than 20, that would be my order!

Jamie

 

[ZUG]

Ah, a dastardly plot to allow the guardian moths out of my wallet and let some money escape.

I don't know if I saw the Tan Colour or not, I think I saw the Dark Brown.

Decisions, decisions.......

Thanks for the heads up.

Gus

I LOVE your reply "Ah, a dastardly plot to allow the guardian moths out of my wallet and let some money escape." :rotf:
I think I will "steal" it from time to time :haha: .