Nipples

[atki]

I have been told, that someone makes a nipple that is better suited to shoot Pyrodex. Anyone know what this would be?

I know, Pyrodex is not as good as BlackPowder, but were shooting 16 guns on at a Boy Scout Mountain Man Rendezvous and we need to keep them shooting as long as we can without cleaning.

 

[Rebel]

The Hot Shot nipples always worked good for me. Most suppliers carry them.

 

[Toomuch_36]

I know, Pyrodex is not as good as BlackPowder, but were shooting 16 guns on at a Boy Scout Mountain Man Rendezvous and we need to keep them shooting as long as we can without cleaning.

I know your main question is about choice of nipple, but if extencive operation is your goal you would do better by leaving the pyrodex at home and taking 3F black powder with you. The 3F will give you cleaner, more positive fire than pyrodex ever could.

ASM T/59;
Toomuch
...........
Shoot Flint

 

[Zonie]

I have found that when shooting real black powder, loading becomes difficult after 8-12 shots unless that powder is Swiss.
Even with Swiss, after 20 shots it needs wiping.

Many times I have shot Pyrodex over 50 shots without the need to wipe even once.
This is in .45, .50 and .54 caliber guns.

After the shooting is done, the Pyrodex does need a little more work (but not much) to clean but for continious shooting it is IMO, hard to beat.

I haven't had a real problem with factory nipples and Pyrodex although I usually change out my nipples to the Hot Shot style just because I think they are one of the best.

If I were to make any suggestion to help you with your planned shoot, I would say Look around to see if you can fine any CCI Magnum Primers.
They will reduce the number of mis-fires which can plague the Pyrodex user.

Zonie

 

[Toomuch_36]

In as much as all rifles are an individual unto themselves. As I have stated many times I have been using Goex from the beginning of my muzzleloading life and using just spit for patch lube and 3F for charge I have been going nearly 100 shots without having to swab the barrel during a weekend shoot.

Toomuch
..........
Shoot Flint

 

[atki]

My experience has been exactly the same as Zonie. (sorry we make fun of 'Zonies' in San Diego. Escially since we take so much of your money!)

My shooting on a line, with both a 62 smoothbore and a 50 percussion, is that I get more shots without wiping with Pyrodex. I shoot Goex. Just because it is black powder. However, with 300 scouts shooting in four hours, we have to keep the guns on the line.

WB

 

[roundball]

I have been told, that someone makes a nipple that is better suited to shoot Pyrodex. Anyone know what this would be?

I know, Pyrodex is not as good as BlackPowder, but were shooting 16 guns on at a Boy Scout Mountain Man Rendezvous and we need to keep them shooting as long as we can without cleaning.

Hot Shot nipples have always worked best for me;

And unless you're shooting in very low humidity/dry conditions, patches prelubed with Natural Lube 1000 will let you shoot Pyrodex RS all day without wiping between shots.

If it will be low humidity/dry conditions, then Hoppe's No9 BP Plus is outstanding and lets you do the same thing.

Be safe and enjoy!
:thumbsup:

 

[Landngroove]

If you are going to be shooting Pyrodex, I also agree that the Hotshot nipple, and CCI # 11 magnum caps are a good choice. An alternative is a Musket cap nipple, which takes the larger, hotter, Musket caps.

 

[fw707]

Maybe I'm just missing something, or maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I ALWAYS wipe between shots with a spit patch. It's just a habit I developed many years ago to make loading easier and a little safer in my opinion.
It takes about 10 seconds, and I can literally shoot all day, without any problems, and maintain accuracy as long as I shoot.
I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything, but I've always done it, and I thought it was pretty much an accepted practice.
Maybe not???

Sorry to get off the nipple subject, but it seemed like things were going this way.

 

[Herb]

Go for the Hot Shot nipples. They were designed to be used with Pyrodex, and really make a difference. Remington or CCI No. 11 caps will work equally well, CCI magnum caps are not necessary. See the posts under "Triple 7?" in the Shooting Accessories forum.

 

[TN.Frank]

If you are going to be shooting Pyrodex, I also agree that the Hotshot nipple, and CCI # 11 magnum caps are a good choice. An alternative is a Musket cap nipple, which takes the larger, hotter, Musket caps.

Yep, that's what I was going to suggest. Another nice thing is that it'll still be "PC" too since musket caps came along pretty much as #11 did. :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

WADR, I don't understand how running a spit patch down the barrel after each shot makes the process slower? NOT doing it makes the process more dangerous, and since when would anyone want to compromise Safety when there are 300 Scouts on the line? I am assuming there is a shooting coach for each two shooters on the line. If you want speed, get more guns, and have two loaders per coach. If they have 4 guns, they can be reloading two of them while the coach passes the loaded ones to the shooters.

Part of teaching Scouts, and other kids about muzzle loading is that it IS a SLOWER, more deliberate shooting game. If you want firepower, then use .22 semiautos with long magazines. There are also needed safety lessons in loading the guns that they need to learn, too. Why would you skip them? If you do skip them, aren't you denying the Scouts a proper education in shooting muzzle loaders, safely?

BTW, I have taught Scouts, and I help teach an NRA Youth Shooting Camp each year. I think the kids quickly understand why they will shoot slower, and maybe not as many shoots with the muzzle loaders, as they can with .22 revolvers, or .22 rifles. They even seem to take their time and make their limited shots count, because it takes time to reload the gun. Having seen how much they enjoy that uniqueness that is our sport, I would not want to deny them that opportunity. My $.02.

 

If you use musket caps and have any lefty shooters have them wear a glove on their right hand.Musket caps give off sparks into the wrist.Dont want to discourage anyone from shooting.

 

[TN.Frank]

If you use musket caps and have any lefty shooters have them wear a glove on their right hand.Musket caps give off sparks into the wrist.Dont want to discourage anyone from shooting.

OH, YAH, found that out BIG TIME when I installed em' on my double barrel shotgun. I picked up some flash cups to take care of the problem. If you're shooting a right handed gun left handed with a musket cap you'll need long sleves for sure. :v

 

[CrackStock]

Too Much

you would do better by leaving the pyrodex at home and taking 3F black powder with you.

The Boy Scouts prohibit the use of black Powder which is why they never use flintlocks. Seems they regard it as a problem to procure, store and document. Hopefully, they will see the light someday so that flinters can re-enter their world.

CS

 

[Herb]

I just tested CCI 11, CCI magnum and Remington 11 caps in my .40 Hawken caplock. And learned something I didn't expect. I was using Goex 3F and Triple 7 2F. I have had some trouble getting Triple 7 to work well in a .40, but this time it did. Here are the results:

With 50 grains of Goex 3F and .380 cast balls and old, thick pillow ticking, the CCI 11 caps averaged 1842 fps with 43 spread for six shots. I fired seven, but dropped the first "fouler" velocity because it was 90 fps higher than the next six average). Group for seven was 2.45".

Everything the same but CCI Magnum, five shots
went 1856 and 24 spread, only 14 fps more. Group was 1.9".

Then 50 grains of Triple 7 3F with a standard nipple and same patch, blew the patch. So I put down a dry patch for an overpowder wad, then the patched ball. Still ruined the ball patch, 4 3/4" group. Velocity was 2246 fps with 48 spread for five shots.

So I shot 50 grains of Triple 7 2F, but added a 1/2" square piece of felt strip insulation from Ace Hardware, dry, as an overpowder wad. Worked great. Standard nipple and CCI 11 caps worked perfectly, which surprised me. Five shots gave 1982 fps with 45 spread, and a 1.9" group.

Then I used Remington 11 caps, from Wal Mart. The package says "NEW Hotter caps! 40% More Flame Volume." Now doesn't that sound hotter? Well, six shots averaged 1977 fps with a 40 fps spread, 5 fps less than the CCI 11 standard caps, or statistically no difference. Except the six shot group was 2.3", but right on top of the first group. So when I say the standard caps work fine, they do. I expected the standard nipple would not work well, but it fired perfectly.

 

[Snuffy]

Best caps I found are the red-tin Dynamit Nobel #1075 Plus caps. It's Sparks City with these - loudest firecracker sound also.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The only reason to use hotter caps is for the substitutes, that require a higher temperture to ignite. With Black powder, you will do just fine with standard primers, and nipples.

Just a note about your testing: Those thick patches, and that .40 cal. bore explains why you got the low SDV with these tests. If you reduce the friction between the ball and the barrel, either by increasing the diameter of the ball( going to another caliber gun), or by using a thinner patch, you will find that the SDV increases, and accuracy suffers. With even the standard caps, it seems that the manufacturers have been increasing the powder of the caps, to deal with the substitutes, but the effect when shooting BP is that the hot priming powder actually begin to move the ball forward before the powder charge has a chance to burn itself into gas, and push the ball from its seat. How much forward movement occurs varies from shot to shot, and that is the source of the loss in accuracy, and increases in sdv.

Your use of the filler made of wool(?) provided a shock absorber to take that initial push away from the PRB, and allowed the main charge to build up its pressure before the ball moved. That gave you the better sdv, and better accuracy. The slight loss in velocity is also probably related to using that cushion. Not a bad idea. :thumbsup: Use it if you switch to a thinner patching material, too. :hmm:

 

[Snuffy]

The only reason to use hotter caps is for the substitutes, that require a higher temperture to ignite. With Black powder, you will do just fine with standard primers, and nipples.

Actually the best reason for myself to use a hot nipple instead of A regular one is the inclimate/humid weather here in Michigan. :nono:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Snuffy: I have shot percussion caps in all kinds of weather and don't find any difference. I live in Central Illinois, where half the time we live with the Great Lakes Affect on our weather, and the rest of the time, we deal with the Gult Affect on the weather. If we get an Alberta Clipper in the winter time, it gets almost as cold as you get in Michigan. But it stays more humid here because we almost immediately get winds out of the SW bring up gult moist air. We are in our Dog Days or August right now, with relative humidity rarely below 70%.

Try this test. Take you chosen gun out at night, and try all the caps where you can see the flame that comes out of the barrel with some kind of measure in the backbround, like a picket fence, or porch railing. I think you will find that the length of the flame from one cap to another is not much different, and certainly doesn't justify paying the higher price for the " Hotter caps ". The only gun I now have that uses caps is my double barrel shotgun with 30" tubes. The flames come out at least 10 inches regardless of the cap used. That is just shooting the caps. If you put in a powder charge, you get a 2 foot flame in front of the barrel, and sometimes more.