MVTC musket using shot, results

[tiger13]

I took advantage of a beautiful Sunday to try my hand at shooting my India pattern Bess that I bought from MVTC a few years ago to replace a similar musket that was stolen in a break in. This day I tried something that I have never done before and that was I tried using it as a shotgun, or fowler. The only thing I had to use was copper washed BB's, and I don't want to make a habit of it, I decided to give it a go. I measured out, and shot a variety loads, but started with 50 grains of 2F Goex, with a toilet tissue wad, then 1 1/2 oz of shot,and got good results at 50 feet, and shot again at 90 feet but the results were not very good. I next upped the shot to 1 3/4 oz and moved back to 90 feet, and it was better, but not by much. I upped the charge to 60 grains and it improved but was still light on the hits. This final target is with 60 grains of 2F Goex and 2 1/2 oz of shot at 90 feet with the 3rd model Brown Bess 39 inch barrel Total shots for the day were 30 and I had 1 misfire from a dirty flint. All the wadding and over wadding was just with toilet paper, as I said I had never fired shot from this musket before

 

[Scota4570]

Air rifle BBs have no place as firearms projectiles. There is a good chance you have scored your barrel.

With proper wadding real steel shot can be used. It is ineffective because black powder can not generate the velocities necessary for steel.

I suggest you find some lead shot and some loading data.

 

[azmntman]

I have killed many ducks with em outta my chrome lined pedersoli 10GA before I sold it. I did "cheat" and use plastic cups :redface: though. Ducks were not aware they were "daisy" pellets smacking em :idunno:

 

[tiger13]

Well, as I said, It was it's first time with shot, and it is not intended to be a steady diet, and it IS only a lowly Indian made musket, and the bore seems as bright and score free as it was when I received it. Your scolding is duly noted. But as far as velocity is concerned, it did chew the heck out of the 1/8 lauan plywood backing I had the target attached to at 90 feet.

 

[coloradoclyde]

It is ineffective because black powder can not generate the velocities necessary for steel.

:bull: Many dead rabbits would disagree. And with the mere 30 gr. of powder I have been using they do not score the barrel.
Your mileage may vary.

 

[Alden]

I use them on occasion as well -- cheap, big enough to do the job, and plentiful. That said I wonder if I've fired 30 rounds of Copperheads in my entire life through all my guns...

You cannot compensate for a wide pattern by throwing more lead (or copper-washed steel) down range where the velocity is reduced though. It might LOOK good on paper, etc., but the energy isn't there anymore. Cylinder Bore? 20 Meters, 25 Yards tops.

 

[JonnyReb3]

Looks pretty good to me Tiger13, not many critters would find a big enough hole in that pattern to slide through :thumbsup:
With some trial and error you can probably learn what works to tighten your patterns or open them, out to 90 feet i'd say you've got a great small game pattern already.

I remember digging a charge out of a scoutmasters family 1861? springfield..it had probably been loaded over the fireplace or in the closet for 100+ years. It was little bits and pieces of cut up screws. I now wish i had kept them or at least got a picture. Bet whomever did that REALLY wished they had some bb's.. :haha: did beat rocks though ..

 

[coloradoclyde]

Every tool has its own use and you need to know how to use it. :grin:

 

[tiger13]

I totally agree. I had fired a shot at about 50 feet with 50 grains 2F and 1 3/4 oz of shot and it plastered the target very well, but did very little at 90 feet. I was kind of looking for something that would be a compromise of the best "reach out and touch" something at that long range, and then back in at 50 feet and under, it was devastating. The target was thoroughly hammered.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I don't see where the op states he used steel bb's!

That aside I shot a duck with steel out of my faux trade gun. In a card wrap.

The powder charges seem light in the above test!

B.

 

[nhmoose]

Here in the US copper washed air rifle shot are steel with a copper wash. There is BB lead copper plated lead shot but it is not called air rifle shot. Hope that helps

 

[azmntman]

When I shot ducks with the 10ga (and cups :redface: ) I was using daisy BB's for air rifles. Killed em dead, or they thought they were dead as they crocked away betweeningst a layer of sliced apples and oranges :idunno:

 

[Scota4570]

" copper washed BB's"

I took that to mean air rifle shot, if I was wrong, sorry.

With any shotgun, use equal volumes powder and lead shot. So, in a 12 ga. about 1 1/8 oz shot and 90 to 100 grains powder. That will give around 1000 fps. Pretty slow by today's standards. Be careful with loose paper wadding if you have any wild fire danger.

The lack of speed is a problem for steel shot. In order to get steel shot to work it has to go faster than traditional lead. Good steel shot loads run around 1500+ fps. You can't do that with BP. I am talking water fowling not, knocking off a rabbit at point blank range.

I hunt waterfowl with steel shot and tungsten. I used to hunt with lead. I have hunted waterfowl with muzzle loaders using lead and steel shot. I am speaking from experience.

 

[azmntman]

" copper washed BB's"

I took that to mean air rifle shot, if I was wrong, sorry.

With any shotgun, use equal volumes powder and lead shot. So, in a 12 ga. about 1 1/8 oz shot and 90 to 100 grains powder. That will give around 1000 fps. Pretty slow by today's standards. Be careful with loose paper wadding if you have any wild fire danger.

The lack of speed is a problem for steel shot. In order to get steel shot to work it has to go faster than traditional lead. Good steel shot loads run around 1500+ fps. You can't do that with BP. I am talking water fowling not, knocking off a rabbit at point blank range.

I hunt waterfowl with steel shot and tungsten. I used to hunt with lead. I have hunted waterfowl with muzzle loaders using lead and steel shot. I am speaking from experience.

Geez, I wonder what I plucked n ate? :shocked2: :bull:

 

[Alden]

Balance guys.

Steel shot used is generally BIGGER, not necessarily faster, than alternative lead shot (equal overall shot weight + equal powder charge = equal velocity + equal muzzle energy). But those, greater shot size and velocity, are both methods to compensate for something... Even coppered steel's lower density will arguably mean less effective downrange capability (efficiency, penetration). But in the optimal operating range of an open cylinder gun with shot it won't matter too much -- it's the pattern at 15, OK let's say 20, Meters not at an extraordinary 90 Yards, that matters. Who's shooting any shotgun expecting consistant, useful, results at 90 Yards in any case!?

By the way, I'm sure as heck not getting behind a 2-1/2 Ounce load of any shot charged with the powder required to maintain hunting/military velocities, especially in an India-made gun -- that's what we call "proofing"!

Note:
In the U.S. lead may not be used to hunt waterfowl due the Left's and the shotgun-manufacturers' marriage of "green" convenience -- one's interest was to anchor Marxist faux-scientific propaganda and the other's was a "get rich quick" scheme. The Democrat Party wanted to set a precedent of banning lead (as a step closer towards ultimately banning hunting and private ownership of guns of course), whilst the other wanted to cash in and sell a couple of generations of hunters brand new shotguns whose barrels would not bulge from steel shot. Win/win!

 

[tiger13]

It is fine. What I used was the BB's that would have been used out of an air rifle. I kept the powder charge down because it is an Indian musket and the recommended charge is around 80 grains of powder. I have never fired shot before and having heard/read the recommendations others that you should use less of a load of powder than with ball started light and worked with between 50 and 60 grains. I just increased the shot charge and got good results. I may experiment more for fun. I don't do any bird hunting, it was just an experiment. I value all opinions here into things that I have no experience in and did not mean to start any flame wars between members.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I killed a duck with a slingshot and an iron ore pellet....does that count? :blah:

 

[Alden]

Don't worry about them -- it's like family.

And I commend you for your experimentation, having fun, and sharing it (as long as you're safe). Look at the dialog it's opened.

I would not make a habit out of using steel shot though the coppered is superior and, as I said, convenient as heck. Find some small bags of lead shot or, better yet, try some buckshot or, even better, buck-n-ball loads...

Huzzah!

 

[coloradoclyde]

:thumbsup:

 

[Britsmoothy]

Here in the US copper washed air rifle shot are steel with a copper wash. There is BB lead copper plated lead shot but it is not called air rifle shot. Hope that helps

Yeah, same as here. Thanks.
In the very first post there is no mention of air gun. So some assumed, assumed correctly as it now turns out!

Now that is cleared I have often wondered just how much damage steel shot would do in a front loader! And if it did score, so what!
Some shoot pitted barrels, but mention using steel and all damnation ensues!

I understand the ballistic drop in efficiency however don't see that as a brick wall!

B.