Lube Testing

[hanshi]

Yes, I understood that is was for a pre-established load. You also stated clearly your parameter was velocity rather than accuracy. It was also clear that changing the lube changed velocity. You haven't really told us something that is earth-shattering - we know that changing a variable in a load sequence changes the outcome (accuracy, precision, velocity, ft-pounds on target, other).

All that said, it would have been helpful to know the effect of increased velocity and how it translated into something useful - ACCURACY & PRECISION. Yes, you may have squeezed more FPS out of a load, but if the result was to spray balls all over the target without any consistency, then the gain was useless.

In summary, the effect may be interesting but not anything earth-shattering or even unexpected. The results could have indicated a decrease in velocity, in which case we might not/would not be having this conversation....

So...nothing is worth posting unless it's Earth shattering!? The "taste" of bp certainly wasn't "Earth shattering". In fact 99% of what's posted isn't Earth shattering. The post was cristal clear; a (for me) never before experienced jump caused, apparently, by a lube change and NOBODY cared to speculate? I will mention on every new post if responses are not "Earth shattering. Oh, and a DECREASE in velocity was clearly stated in the post.

And as for "everyone" already knowing the results were expected; why wasn't there anybody willing to SAY SO? :hmm: I might as well add, then, that I didn't give detailed dimensions of the rifle, where it came from or how many rounds it has fired over the 12 years I've had it. OH, but that wouldn't have been "Earth shattering" either.

It might be interesting but not Earth shattering to know that this is the only forum that had no answers, help or ideas. Perhaps the subject of lubes are not suitable for posting at all. I gave results and admitted I speculated on theories; there should have enough brain power, at least, to advance some ideas. :dead:

 

[hanshi]

I'll admit, your post was confusing.....I think that accounts for all the seemingly negative replies...

All in all, it's still interesting....

NO! I think what accounts for all the negative posts was the negativity and, lord I hope not, "snobbery" of those who attacked.

 

[Black Hand]

NO! I think what accounts for all the negative posts was the negativity and, lord I hope not, "snobbery" of those who attacked.

Snobbery?

Rather than addressing the questions and coming up with valid reasons, you took to the defensive when challenged/questioned. Your responses made it abundantly clear you were offended and insulted that people dared question you in any way...

 

[hanshi]

NO! I think what accounts for all the negative posts was the negativity and, lord I hope not, "snobbery" of those who attacked.

Snobbery?

Rather than addressing the questions and coming up with valid reasons, you took to the defensive when challenged/questioned...

Nobody questioned or gave possible answers to the post. What am I to think; that all is known and nothing interesting enough to base theories on?

 

[Black Hand]

NO! I think what accounts for all the negative posts was the negativity and, lord I hope not, "snobbery" of those who attacked.

Snobbery?

Rather than addressing the questions and coming up with valid reasons, you took to the defensive when challenged/questioned...

Nobody questioned or gave possible answers to the post. What am I to think; that all is known and nothing interesting enough to base theories on?

When you say theories, what you actually mean is guesses (or hypothesis/hypotheses). As the author of the guesses, the burden of proof lies with you. It isn't up to us to figure out what it means, as we didn't do the work....

BTW - theory/theories in science mean the complete opposite of the lay-persons definition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

In this specific case, it wasn't even a guess, rather it was a let's see what happens when I do X. Now that you know the outcome, you can design tests to figure out why it happened.

 

[hanshi]

I had a theory based on previous discoveries and I'm sorry you can't theorize or guess. I suppose the claim that helpful people post on this forum is, well, less than, a lot less than correct.

Okay, so knock yourself out second guessing (that's what it is, oh dear!).

 

[Black Hand]

I had a theory based on previous discoveries and I'm sorry you can't theorize or guess.

As I just stated very clearly - the burden of proof lies with you and not anyone else...

 

[BrownBear]

...theories on how lube affects velocity....

Here and there over the years I've heard comments about one lube or another being "too slick." Don't recall what that implied or the results, but as long as you're asking for theories, my mind rattled down this path:

If in fact different lubes differ in lubricity (slickness), is it possible or even likely that a slicker lube would reduce friction and therefore pressures and velocity, while a less slick lube would result in more pressure and velocity?

Dunno how in the world you could objectively measure lubricity of varying lubes, but if possible and easy, it would be interesting to compare lubricity with your velocity results. A correlation would point some fingers, but a lack of correlation would send my maundering mind back to the penalty box.

 

[Black Hand]

It would require multiple testing conditions with multiple (yet equivalent) barrels shot multiple times with identical loads varying only the lube. Not anything that could easily be undertaken. At best, what we have here are subjective observations from less than controlled conditions. Interesting? Sure. Proof of anything? Not really...

 

[coloradoclyde]

I'll admit, your post was confusing.....I think that accounts for all the seemingly negative replies...

All in all, it's still interesting....

NO! I think what accounts for all the negative posts was the negativity and, lord I hope not, "snobbery" of those who attacked.

I hope you don't count me in that lot...It certainly wasn't my intention.

 

[coloradoclyde]

If in fact different lubes differ in lubricity (slickness), is it possible or even likely that a slicker lube would reduce friction and therefore pressures and velocity, while a less slick lube would result in more pressure and velocity?

This basic assumption has been proven.. And I have verified it....
The one caveat is how the lubes react under pressure, heat and friction.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Considering the narrow spread in velocity of your tests...I would say your lube and method of lubing is working quite well....

 

[SgtErv]

Do you think the differing velocities may play a role in how a lube can affect accuracy? Granted, a lot more goes into it than just the lube, but it had me wondering if it's a factor.

When I first started I got a ton of blow by, not using a tight enough patch and also experimenting with olive oil. but when I found the load that "cracked" coming out of the rifle it was also grouping well. Ive guessed that the "crack" is a good gas seal.

It's an interesting test you performed.

 

[meanmike8665]

Do you think the difference is the square vrs round bottom grooves? When I read your post that seems to be the only difference. If the load is accurate, great, velocity might move the group around. You can always move the sight were needed, right?
Michael

 

[Billnpatti]

Hanshi, I fully understand what you are trying to do and why you chose velocity as your measure of the differences in lube and patching. Others have insisted that the only way to measure how changes in the variable (lube) effects the performance of the ball is to measure accuracy. I understand that accuracy is not a pure variable. By that, I mean that there are many other variables besides lube and patch that effect acuracy. Among them are the shooters wibbles and wobbles, wind, light, etc. However, velocity is a more pure variable by which to measure the effects of changes of lube and patches. I surely wish that more of the nay sayers had seen this and not been so quick to criticize. I almost felt that there was a giant sale somewhere on Jack Wilson hats. Hang in there, Hanshi, all research is good.......if you know what to do with th results. Unfortunately, preconcieved notions will blind some to the usefulness of the resultant data.

 

[Okie Hog]

Hanshi:

Thank you for the excellent well documented test. It was an eye opener for me. i put mink oil patch lube on my things to try list.

To the detractors:

i'm not into gilt edge accuracy or black powder PC. Unlike many on this forum, i am incapable of routinely making clover leafs at 100 yards or one ragged hole at 50 yards. But i do kill deer and hogs, lots of hogs.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I almost felt that there was a giant sale somewhere on Jack Wilson hats.

I'd buy one of those hats.......I'd call it a "thinking cap"....Always makes me think.. :hatsoff:

 

[Billnpatti]

I almost felt that there was a giant sale somewhere on Jack Wilson hats.

I'd buy one of those hats.......I'd call it a "thinking cap"....Always makes me think.. :hatsoff:

Gives me a headache.......and often a pain in my nether regions. Only negativity never any help. Oh well, as the man said when he kissed the pig: "To each his own."

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The accuracy of the load WAS ALREADY ESTABLISHED and was under 4" at 100 yards. That is hardly accuracy.

When my eyes were younger, I used an 45 cal H&H barrel with open sights at 100 yds and kept 5 under 2.5 inches all day. Had days when I kept them under a 50 cent piece and still did not even place. And I never considered myself good enough to be serious competition at Friendship. Saw too many smaller groups shot by others.

Maybe you should try swabbing between shots.

 

[Black Hand]

To those who have boarded the flog the dissenters train:
Questioning leads to additional work which may lead to actual answers. As it stands, the information is interesting but anecdotal and lacks sufficient context. The actual outcomes may/will vary from person to person and gun to gun, and a single set of observations are not as significant as most here believe (an N of 1 means NOTHING). The best you can do for yourself is question everything rather than just following along blindly... :idunno: