Lead softener?

[Kadmos]

Started casting, my first batch of .454's for cap and ball turned out really great looking.

However they won't fit the gun that I have been using Hornady swaged balls for (also .454)

Measurements seem to be about the same near as I can tell (with digital calipers..I'm not just guessing).

But those suckers will not go in.

I have to assume the lead is too hard

Should I have lubricated them like bullets?

Is there some sort of annealing I should do?

I am casting them with a hot pot II using a mix of Hornady leftovers (balls used in sizing or to guns I no longer own), daisy lead pellets, and some sinkers from a local fishing place that were cheap.

I'm just casting them and dropping them onto a towel to air cool.

Any thoughts?

 

[Idaho Ron]

The pellets and the sinkers are questionable at best. I am thinking that if the bullets from that mould worked before and everything else is the same then yes it can be the lead is too hard. Also NO you can't soften lead. If you add more soft lead it will just foul the new soft lead. I guess if you keep adding enough soft at some point it will get soft enough to use. If it were me I would test it to see how hard it is and if it was harder than I like I would make fish sinkers out of it. Ron

 

[necchi]

All ya can do is make them harder.
There is really no way to "anneal" lead.

Sorry, but the sinkers are probably what threw the hitch in the mess, most likley not even lead or with a high percentage of stuff not lead,

maybe somebody on the pistol forum has some ideas :idunno:

 

[Kadmos]

Bummer, I had that feeling.

It's still soft enough to scratch it with a fingernail, but it certainly isn't soft enough to shave a lead ring off of.

Seems like it might be about right hardness for my 357, which I also got a mold for.

I've heard wheel weights are too hard also, are there any suggestions for getting pure lead? (cheaply)

Local hardware store has lead used by plumbers, but they have no idea of the purity of it. Seems to be cast into a pot shape, $21 for about 7 pounds...doesn't sound like a great deal.

 

[jethro224]

any suggestions for getting pure lead?

http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/67_lbs._of_lead.htm

 

[CrossXstix]

Go to your local scrap metal yard and ask for sheet lead. If you can scratch it with your thumb nail you done found the good stuff. It's around 50 cents a pound here in Jackson Ms.

X
David

 

[R.M.]

Drop an ingot on a concrete floor. If it "Thuds", it's soft, if it "Rings", it's too hard.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Use those lead balls to recast for bullets for modern guns! The lead you used has WAY TOO MUCH antimony it for using in a BP revolver.

Use SOFT, PURE LEAD ONLY to cast round balls. Get a Lead Tester if you want to continue to buy lead from questionable origins.

Roof Sheathing, shower liners, Cable Sheathing, and Window pane lead are sources of soft lead locally. Sometimes scrap yards separate out their pure lead from The alloys, and you can buy a quantity there. Otherwise, look to national dealers to buy "clean lead".

 

[nkbj]

Started casting, my first batch of .454's for cap and ball turned out really great looking.

However they won't fit the gun that I have been using Hornady swaged balls for (also .454)

Measurements seem to be about the same near as I can tell (with digital calipers..I'm not just guessing).

But those suckers will not go in.

I have to assume the lead is too hard

Should I have lubricated them like bullets?

Is there some sort of annealing I should do?

I am casting them with a hot pot II using a mix of Hornady leftovers (balls used in sizing or to guns I no longer own), daisy lead pellets, and some sinkers from a local fishing place that were cheap.

I'm just casting them and dropping them onto a towel to air cool.

Any thoughts?

Now that's a real head scratcher. Do the swaged 454's shear off a lot of lead, a big ring? Or to say it a different way, are 451's too small?
You know, lots of people use wheel weight balls in percussion revolvers with great results. But, you can't shear a lot off the side. Wheel weight conicals generally are a real no-no because the pressures are not high enough (hopefully) to make the bullet base expand into the rifling.

 

[Kadmos]

Now that's a real head scratcher. Do the swaged 454's shear off a lot of lead, a big ring? Or to say it a different way, are 451's too small?
You know, lots of people use wheel weight balls in percussion revolvers with great results. But, you can't shear a lot off the side. Wheel weight conicals generally are a real no-no because the pressures are not high enough (hopefully) to make the bullet base expand into the rifling.

The swaged ones don't sheer off a whole lot, usually not even a full ring, but they are fairly tough to get in (sherrif model). I tried 451's and they basically dropped in or needed just a touch of pressure, no shaving at all

Which seemed a bit odd to me, the chambers measure out at .447

 

[nkbj]

Now that's a real head scratcher. Do the swaged 454's shear off a lot of lead, a big ring? Or to say it a different way, are 451's too small?
You know, lots of people use wheel weight balls in percussion revolvers with great results. But, you can't shear a lot off the side. Wheel weight conicals generally are a real no-no because the pressures are not high enough (hopefully) to make the bullet base expand into the rifling.

The swaged ones don't sheer off a whole lot, usually not even a full ring, but they are fairly tough to get in (sherrif model). I tried 451's and they basically dropped in or needed just a touch of pressure, no shaving at all

Which seemed a bit odd to me, the chambers measure out at .447

Oh wow. .447" is odd.
Is that a 1851 Sheriffs? .454's are too big for mine too. And the cut-out in the frame is way too small to bother with conicals. I was thinking about firing up the pot and making some .451 rb's to try out.

One thing about the .454's is that they make me push too hard on that dinky little loading lever and I can't get the shot to shot consistency I'm after. So, figured I'd try .451's.
A possible fix for consistency I pondered was trimming a spare loading ram to the point that the lever would bottom out on the slot in the barrel at a chosen location. Then I could juggle the powder volume by using a filler. But, haven't tried it and don't know anyone who has.

 

[Many Klatch]

Kadmos. Make friends with your local roofers. Every house that has a soil stack used to be flashed with a pure soft lead flashing. Most roofers just throw it away with the rest of the trash when they reroof. Offer a case of beer or cash for the lead flashings and you may wind up with more lead than you know what to do with.

Many Klatch

 

[mazo kid]

Now that's a real head scratcher. Do the swaged 454's shear off a lot of lead, a big ring? Or to say it a different way, are 451's too small?
You know, lots of people use wheel weight balls in percussion revolvers with great results. But, you can't shear a lot off the side. Wheel w

The swaged ones don't sheer off a whole lot, usually not even a full ring, but they are fairly tough to get in (sherrif model). I tried 451's and they basically dropped in or needed just a touch of pressure, no shaving at all

Which seemed a bit odd to me, the chambers measure out at .447

Something just doesn't add up....chambers measure at .447" and .451 balls just fall in? You should be shaving .002" off the 451 balls (each side) and .035" off the .454s.

 

[vern faulkner]

The only lead softener that I know of is heat. Vern

 

[bingo1952]

American and Chinese pellets generally are hardened with antimony. The sinkers may or may not have the same element in them. If you are going to use airgun pellets the European brands are for the most part pure lead. A scratch test on the sinkers should tell the tale as to whether or not they will be to hard.

 

[Idaho Ron]

This lead he has is too hard to use and he said he can scratch it with a fingernail.
The old fingernail test is the worst test to use. I can scratch lead that is over 20 BHN. The best test of an ingot is either a Cabin Tree tester. The next best is drop it on cement. Pure will thud hard lead will ring. I got tired of buying lead that was "soft enough to scratch" so I got the cabin tree. I can test any thickness of lead up to 2" thick. Ron

 

[Kadmos]

The mouths of the chambers are a bit bigger, which I guess is why the 451's pretty much just fell in.

I ended up doing some more casting today, used up what I had of the old mix for modern 357. Then melted up just the hordany swaged (440's that I had for a gun I sold)

Really different pouring characteristics on the what I think is purer lead. Didn't mold as well at first

then a 3rd batch from some duck weights I picked up that seem really soft

and finally some wheel weight for the modern gun, I probably should have cast a couple roundball of these just to see if they would load.

I'll report back later once everything is cooled off a bit more.

I also stopped by cabela's today and hemmed and hawed about buying the steel frame 58 remmy, but didn't...apparently the sale ends tomorrow on that stuff

 

[Idaho Ron]

Really different pouring characteristics on the what I think is purer lead. Didn't mold as well at first

then a 3rd batch from some duck weights I picked up that seem really soft

Pure lead is not as easy to make bullets out of as lead with either tin or antimony. Hard lead makes pretty bullets.
When I am making bullets I will add 500 grains of chilled lead shot to 10 pounds of lead. The antimony and tin in the chilled lead shot helps to homogenize the melt. I have use this "recipe" long enough to know what it does and I have a hardness tester to actually know what is going on.
Lead hardness is tough to tell without a way to test it. Dental lead "seems" soft but in fact is quite hard and will ruin a good batch of soft lead. I know I found out the hard way. Ron

 

[Norinco]

They told me the sale on those revolvers will last until they sell a set number of each.

 

[Kadmos]

They told me the sale on those revolvers will last until they sell a set number of each.

The guy told me through tomorrow...could have thought of the ammo sale or something else..I don't know


So far the testing is showing the lead to be the problem

Batch #1 the melted hornady loaded up pretty well, a bit stiff, but not too bad

Batch #2 of the "duck weights" is obviously a bit harder, but did load with some extra effort

I did a sort of control group of the mix I used before, same result..stuck partway in..it was deforming like it was going to shave a ring, but without resorting to a hammer, it wasn't going in.

I understand that lead hardens more after a day or so, so I figure I will try loading up one of batch #1 and 2 on monday