Ky rifle vs PA rifle?

[16gauge]

Can anyone explain to me the difference between a Kentucky rifle and a Pennsylvania rifle....in easy, simple to understand terms? I don't see much of a difference, at least physically.

 

[Grenadier1758]

For the most part a Kentucky rifle is a Pennsylvania Rifle in the hands of a Kentuckian. Then you get into the styles and types of rifles available at the time Kentucky was being settled. Most would have been made in Pennsylvania for sale to people in Kentucky. Thats when you start to consider the calibers, simplicity of decoration and style of lock.

Not much difference really.

 

[Robby]

I seem to remember reading that the Kentucky name came as a result of a popular song around 1812(?).
I'm not sure though.
Robby

 

[Birdman]

16 its pretty much a misnomer, Kentuc became a popular nickname back in the 40s or 50s I believe. The rifles were developed in Pa for the most part n carried all over Kentucky just happeneds to be the popular name most folk know them by, no difference really except in the name

 

[jdkerstetter]

Robby nailed it. The song that started that popularized the name was "The Hunters of Kentucky" written in 1821 to commerate the war of 1812.

The debate ensued for years and in 1963, the Governor of Pennsylvania challenged the Governor of Kentucky to field a team of Riflemen to settle it once and for all:
http://www.kyclr.com/history.php

It's been going on ever since. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[crockett]

There is no difference, it is a different name for the same gun, which is actually called The American Longrifle. Most were made in Pennsylvania hence the "Pennsylvania" name. At the time Pennsylvania was the "Arsenal of America" turning out the bulk of firearms. Some folks think a Kentucky has a straight stock and the PA a Roman nose, etc- not true- just differences betweeen area, time, or builder. There were variations of the guns made in PA. These variations were by county and also builder. And, the style changed over time as well. I'm no expert in this subject but an unmarked rifle can often be attributed to a particular bulder by the design of the patchbox, trigger guard, etc. "The Pennsylvania Rifle" by Henry Kaufman can often be bought used for around $10 and is a good guide. There were similar rifles made in Ohio, Indian, etc. In the South the rifles were a little different and often iron hardware was more common. As stated, the "Kentucky Rifle" name got started from a song written about the "Hunters from Kentucky" with their "Kentucky Rifles" at the Battle of New Orleans- 1815. If I recall both current Kentucky and Tennessee were considered "Kentucky" at the time.
During the American Revolution a lot of British officers were amazed at these American Longrifles and considered them the finiest made rifles in the world.

 

[Robby]

Thank you JD!!! That would have been gnawing at me till I would have scratched a bald spot! :grin:
Robby

 

[Loyalist Dave]

But Jackson was wide awake, and wasn't scared at trifles,
For well he knew what aim we take with our Kentucky Rifles;
So he led us down to Cyprus swamp, the ground was low and mucky,
There stood John Bull in marial pomp, and here was old Kentucky

And the song was about the Battle of New Orleans.

FYI when the Corps of Discovery ordered their rifles, although ten years before the War of 1812, they were to be of the "Lancaster pattern". So it indeed is a bit of folklore that the rifles were orginally called "Kentucky" rifles. Daniel Boone, having homesteaded in Kentucky, and winning reknown with a long rifle, helped to foster the idea, but Boone was born in Pennsylvania.

LD

 

[sleeperNY]

That shoot now draws teams from many states. I use to go down in the 90's with the New York State team. My son even got to shoot there and at the time got a prize for being the youngest to shoot in the match.. I think he was 14 then.

 

[kopfjaeger]

jdkerstetter,

That was a good web-site. That shooting match would be great to watch, even better to shoot in.

 

[Col. Batguano]

People familiar with this class of rifles tend to describe them in terms of school or style; Haines, Lehigh, etc. When they are generalizing, to other gun people, they call them American, or Pennsylvania long rifles. When they are talking to people generally unfamiliar with bp guns they call them Kentucky rifles.

All are accurate terms, but tailored to best communicate with the audience.

 

[nchawkeye]

Yep, Boone was born in Pennsylvania, headed to Carolina when about 18 in 1750 and made his first trip into Kentucky in 1769...He finally went there for good in 1775...

So Daniel probably took a rifle made in Carolina into Kentucky...Thousands of these guns were made down here as well and many of the first followed the Christians Springs patten as Moravians moved into this region in the 1760s...

When I give talks, I tend to stick with American Longrifles as they were made up and down the eastern seaboard and even later into Kentucky, Tennessee, Ohio, etc...

 

[jdkerstetter]

.....All are accurate terms, but tailored to best communicate with the audience.

That says it all right there. I try to not get to wrapped up in. It's like debating "is that a car or an automobile?" The two are synonymous.

Historically they are most often referred to simply as "rifle guns" unless, as today, one is specifying for clarity....as with the Corps of Discovery....and Lewis wasn't specific enough for historians to agree what exactly he picked up at Harper's Ferry.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Dphar]

Can anyone explain to me the difference between a Kentucky rifle and a Pennsylvania rifle....in easy, simple to understand terms? I don't see much of a difference, at least physically.

The proper term. IMO is "American Rifle".
I believe the term Kentucky rifle stems from the Kentuckians who took part in the Battle of New Orleans and coined to song "Hunters of Kentucky".
One verse being;
"But Jackson he was wide awake, and wasn’t scared at trifles,
For well he knew what aim we take with our Kentucky rifles;
So he led us down to Cyprus swamp, the ground was low and mucky,
There stood John Bull in martial pomp, and here was old Kentucky. "

I think this is the first mention of "Kentucky Rifle" at least that is written down. Though we don't really know how many Kentucky rifles were used in the fight.

Kauffman's book title. "The Pennsylvania-Kentucky Rifle" should solve the basic question. While some of the research is somewhat dated today people interested in the rifles should read it.

The internet is a good resource but not that good.
Dan

 

[Dphar]

Yep, Boone was born in Pennsylvania, headed to Carolina when about 18 in 1750 and made his first trip into Kentucky in 1769...He finally went there for good in 1775...

So Daniel probably took a rifle made in Carolina into Kentucky...Thousands of these guns were made down here as well and many of the first followed the Christians Springs patten as Moravians moved into this region in the 1760s...

When I give talks, I tend to stick with American Longrifles as they were made up and down the eastern seaboard and even later into Kentucky, Tennessee, Ohio, etc...

There were gunsmiths in Boone's family and could have been carrying a rifle by an uncle or by Squire who was a trained gunsmith, I think he apprenticed to an uncle. Daniel understood firearms well enough to do repairs.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

But Jackson was wide awake, and wasn't scared at trifles,
For well he knew what aim we take with our Kentucky Rifles;
So he led us down to Cyprus swamp, the ground was low and mucky,
There stood John Bull in marial pomp, and here was old Kentucky

And the song was about the Battle of New Orleans.

FYI when the Corps of Discovery ordered their rifles, although ten years before the War of 1812, they were to be of the "Lancaster pattern". So it indeed is a bit of folklore that the rifles were orginally called "Kentucky" rifles. Daniel Boone, having homesteaded in Kentucky, and winning reknown with a long rifle, helped to foster the idea, but Boone was born in Pennsylvania.

LD

Dang, beat me too it, I did not read down far enough before posting.
Dan

 

[crockett]

That Kauffman book, the pictures are in Black and White. If someone could do a new edition, same research and text, but with color photos- then that book would be really great. Good book anyway. Very good starter- general reference as it covers changes over time and then reviews the styles by county and builder.

 

[nchawkeye]

Yep, Boone was born in Pennsylvania, headed to Carolina when about 18 in 1750 and made his first trip into Kentucky in 1769...He finally went there for good in 1775...

So Daniel probably took a rifle made in Carolina into Kentucky...Thousands of these guns were made down here as well and many of the first followed the Christians Springs patten as Moravians moved into this region in the 1760s...

When I give talks, I tend to stick with American Longrifles as they were made up and down the eastern seaboard and even later into Kentucky, Tennessee, Ohio, etc...

There were gunsmiths in Boone's family and could have been carrying a rifle by an uncle or by Squire who was a trained gunsmith, I think he apprenticed to an uncle. Daniel understood firearms well enough to do repairs.

Dan

I've heard this all my life, with no proof...

Have any pictures of a rifle gun signed on the barrel Boone???

 

[jdkerstetter]

No proof of which? Daniel apprenticed as a 'smith or his uncle was a 'smith?

Even if there are no guns signed "Boone" doesn't mean there were no Boone gunsmiths.

Signing guns was not always fashionable and never in some areas. What is generally used as reference was tax, census and other public records that indicate occupation....not necessarily surviving work. If we only used signed surviving guns to identify 'smiths the list would likely be shorter and a lot different.

There were several gunsmiths on record directly related to Daniel Boone.

Ejoy, J.D.

 

[kaintuck]

yup........I was born in Kentucky, and the wood and barrels on some of mine are from Kentucky..but I make them here in Tennessee.......sooo....mine are Ky/Tn rifles :blah: :stir:

and accurate...why, I can supply targets with one hole in them ALL-DAY-LONG to anybody who wants to see how accurate they are!!!!!