james allen double barrel 10 gage

[gearhead1985]

So the other day on Facebook I found a guy selling an old James Allen 10 gauge double barrel and I brought it home for $100


Now in my initial inspection I noticed several slight problems like the nipples being beat to death from being dry fired and the hammers are a little rough


And the wood is a little beat up




And here is a picture of the proof marks


All I know about this gun is that it was made in the 1890's and possibly in London I am not a gun smith but I figure it is just wood and metal and I got a month or two before goose season to make this a shooter

As of right now I know I need remove the old nipples and install new nipples.the hammers need some I might make new ones
Another idea I had was to convert over to 209 primers it will take a little machine work to make custom nipples and hammers but its just metal and it all cuts, drills and welds

Right now I got a mix of atf and kerosene sitting in the barrels to help break the nipples free so I can see what threads I am looking at for the nipples

So if any one has any use full knowledge about this gun it would be great I know nothing and Google did not help

 

[nwtradegun]

I would stay away from primers. stick with musket caps. as the barrel is most likely twist steel barrels and subject to corrosion. have them checked out first. any alter as far as accseories track of the wolf has anything you may need.alteraion would decrease the vale. also it dates to the mid to 1800s to 1870

 

[nhmoose]

Barrels are the most important part, condition of bores, ribs, breech plugs count 99% more than the hammers nipples etc.

You need a knowledgeable gunsmith to check them out long before just replacing the nipples or hammers.

By the way most shotguns use #11 nipples not musket caps I have never used a musket cap on a DB shotgun as there is no need.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Lucky find, foto isn't clear snuff to tell if the barrels are twist or extruded.

 

[Dave K]

Of course the barrels are everything. I have fixed cracked stocks such as this, turned new barrel thimbles and sweat them on and tig welded hammers to make as new. Cost effective? Maybe not,it was a labor of love I have done several times.Stay with the no.11 caps, you will be much happier you did.when it comes to the cracked stock, the only repair that I could get to hold, was the removal of all oil/dirt from the wood. Usually a 2-3 day soak submerged in acetone.

 

[gearhead1985]

I would stay away from primers. stick with musket caps. as the barrel is most likely twist steel barrels and subject to corrosion. have them checked out first. any alter as far as accseories track of the wolf has anything you may need.alteraion would decrease the vale. also it dates to the mid to 1800s to 1870

What features are you basing the age off of?

The reason for the 209 conversion is that I have lots of them already and the second is I cannot find #11 primers locally


For checking the barrels what would a gunsmith be looking at I have access to an x-ray machine at the vets office for $50 and I have non-destructive testing spray I have not sprayed the barrels down with it because I am worried about protecting the patina I am looking at doing doing this my self because I am striking out with local gun smiths that are willing or able to check this out I got 2 more to check out tomorrow

 

[Wes/Tex]

Without clearer pictures of the proof stamps it's going to be hard to identify which James Allen we're dealing with. There were James Allen in both England and the U.S.

As for age, percussion came in strong in the mid 1830's, although it had been around a couple of decades, and went out among most makers by 1870+/-. The pictures appear to show a damascus barrel though it's hard to tell. Briefly and simplistically, these were made by heating steel strips, winding them around a mandrel and hammer forging them together. If corrosion gets to work between the hammered strips, the barrels can fail. I'm not sure if a vet's x-ray machine would be sufficient to help. They need special views or being magna-fluxed and we're talking about some fair amount of money. Most gunsmiths not familiar with antique guns can't really help. Sorry to be a wet blanket but if you can get the use of an X-ray machine, it might help. I wish you good luck with your adventure! :thumbsup:

 

[gearhead1985]

Here are a better picture of the proof marks its as close as I can get with out it getting blurry and I just found a "R" on the underside of the vent rib just out of the view of the camera


Now I had an interesting idea and I unscrewed the lens and reflector off a mini mag and dropped it down the barrel here is the right barrel

Left barrel

Looks like normal surface rust with maybe a small bit of fowling

 

[Wes/Tex]

Bit tough for my older eyes but the crossed scepter and crown marks do look like the Birmingham proof marks for "definitive black powder proof for shotguns", 1868-1925. Even though the photos appear to show damascus twist, many British makers copied the coloration even on fluid steel barrels. Hopefully, someone else may be better able to tell. Another possibility for help would be to contact Track Of The Wolf. They sell lots of old percussion doubles and can possibly tell you someone in your area qualified to tell the actual condition of the bores or who might have the knowledge or equipment to check. They've also sold some modern made double flint shotguns that were made on double percussion barrels re-breached and converted to flint. They might be of help.