Is this historically correct?

[tg]

I am glad that someone mentioned again how broad generlized statements do not always end up being true in real life. The main issue here is the with the instant information network now available all the vendors/builders who have pretty much done what they want and called it correct and have been believed are now up against a much better informed buying public with tastes based on more fact than in the past.Plus the understanding that many vendors now are basicly a higher level of generic gun much comparble to the TC Hawkens and such halfstocks of the 70's and 80's

 

[54ball]

I have seen a picture somewhere of a Southwest Virginia/Tennessee rifle with a Germanic or Germanic/American lock. This rifle was very early like 1780s-90s. It is not in the classic Tennessee style. It looked more like a plain Lancaster with iron trim, pointed tang and other "southern features".

If I remember correctly the maker was from Pennsylvania Dutch stock and had migrated to the south west. This maker or family of makers made a southern rifle with a Germanic lock.

Keep in mind it was very early for the area and very rare.

If you did want to use a LH Chambers Golden Age or Siler, they did exist, at least on one Southern or Southern family of rifles very early.

Do your research. Like I said this was a early rifle and not the ultra slim deep butted southern gun we are accustomed to seeing.

 

[kodiakmarine]

I'm not saying that Germanic locks were common, only that there would have been the occasional oddity :surrender: . I am well aware of the strong English gun making tradition that was part of the southern mountain culture.

Please remember this is about someone trying to stay within a limited budget. At the low end of the price spectrum it is very hard to find a southern mountain rifle with an English lock, save the occasional DGW Tennesse Mountain Rifle. The lowest cost guns seem to be poor boys from Tennessee Valley Manufacturing and Tennessee Valley Muzzaleloading, all with Siler locks. If anyone knows of a relatively inexpensive SMR with an English lock please post the info.

 

[kodiakmarine]

Powerkicker, I was checking out the Sitting Fox Muzzleloaders site. They have a Dixie Gunworks Tennessee Mountain Rifle in .50 caliber that is historically correct and is advertized for $799. It appears to be in very good condition and according to Sitting Fox has had little use. Here is the link: Link Just go to the bottom of the page, left hand column, and click on Finished Guns for sale, then scroll down until you find DGW Poor Bow 50 cal. I don't know if this is what you want but it won't hurt to take a look. Good luck.

 

[Powerkicker]

I appreciate the heads up, but I am looking for a flintlock. :hatsoff:

 

[kodiakmarine]

I don't know how I could have missed that percussion lock! Sorry.

 

[BigSkyRambler]

I can see it clear as day, now. An Appalachian gun maker sits there with a big pile of parts he's scrounged and bought over the years and an almost finished rifle on his bench. He thinks, "Dang, can't use this lock cause it ain't HC/PC and I just don't have the correct lock on hand. And it'll be summer before I can get to Richmond."

That's hilarious! :rotf: I love it. And probably so true. :hatsoff:

 

[smoothy]

I see you passed on this rifle. Back in the 80's and 90's this type of Tennessee/SM rifle with the Siler lock was kinda popular. We weren't as sophisticated and scholared as we now are. I'm not saying that a Germanic lock "never" happened, but it doesn't fit in todays norm and testimonies of what people have seen. Just think, 20 years from now people may be remarking how the guns being made today aren't being pc/hc due to some overlooked/unearthed fact. Stainless steel touchole liners come to mind for starters. But there may be subtle things now that become glaring issues in the future.

 

[kodiakmarine]

I don't know if anyone is still paying attention, but please check out CrossXstix post with picture: Modified LH Siler, to RF English.
It would take more skill than I have, but I sure like the result.

 

[joffrion]

Saw this blog from last year. Thought you might be interested to know that I have a left-hand locked Va. rifle, pre 1834. It is stocked for a right-hand shooter. Will send you a pic as soon as I figure out how to do it.

 

[Dphar]

JP Beck died in 1811 and some of his late rifles have flat face English locks. Not Germanic. By the time the Southern Mountain rifle arrived any Germanic lock would likely have been worn past using. That Beck, who was building "Rev-War" styled rifles late was using English locks it indicates to me that by the eve of the War of 1812 English locks were very common even in "Germanic" PA. In fact the Moravian Gunshop at Christian Springs had English barrels and locks in stock well circa 1770.
Its possible to cook up all sorts of possibilities to justify something. But possibilities do not make something historically correct. This was the original question.
There are other differences besides the shape of the pan or the what the plate is contoured between Germanic and English locks that cannot be changed by reshaping so making a Siler in the RF English that is CORRECT is not really possible.
So if the rifle is a Southern Mtn Rifle and has a Germanic lock its chances of being historically correct are slim. The classic SMR seem to be post 1812 and I suspect that many date from the 1830s and 40s even if flintlock.

Dan

 

[hanshi]

That tells me what I wanted to know; thanks for the post.

 

[kaintuck]

Southern Mountain Bean Style Rifle #K42

get a small cal~ 'bean' type rifles look great to me for a 'southern mtn' type rifle

 

[hanshi]

Understand that TVM can build with an English lock, or any other lock/part you ask for. I know because I've specified Chambers locks on two Occasions as well as nonstandard barrels.