dukewellington
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How did the hunters make lead shot for their fowlers all those years ago? I'm trying to make some the traditional way.
Thanks,
Duke :thumbsup:
Thanks,
Duke :thumbsup:
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How did they make lead shot in the old days?
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They used to just pound lead out flat and cut it into little chunks with a knife. At some later point someone figured out that if you dropped molten lead from a high point into water, it formed little droplets that hardened when hitting the water.
dukewellington
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Has anyone got any instructions on how to do this?
Thanks
Thanks
A couple of issues back, Muzzle Blast magazine had a two part article on just that subject. I can't go int specifics but the process is not very easy. You have to have a copper ladle with extremely small holes drilled in it. (.004 diameter holes) This is for the drop method.
Snakebite
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Just make a very small round ball mold :grin:
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
dukewellington
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I tried google and all I found was making it the modern way.
BTW, are copper plated BB's safe to use? I have a pedersoli smooth-rifle, so shot or ball.
BTW, are copper plated BB's safe to use? I have a pedersoli smooth-rifle, so shot or ball.
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the muzzle blast article (which went to two issues: i hate it when we get "tune in next week...") finally 'fessed up that they couldn't get the lead to behave and make round pellets unless it had some arsnic (sp?) in the mix to tinker with the surface tension... if i remember they recovered some very old lead from shotgun cartridges made before arsnic was banned.
there is said to be a gadget which will make #6 shot from wheelweight: i think it's called the Littleton Shotmake, or shotmaster or somesuch... last time i looked they were pretty expensive (in the $350 range) and i thought that i could buy an aweful lot of #6 for the money... anyway, hope this helps
make good smoke
there is said to be a gadget which will make #6 shot from wheelweight: i think it's called the Littleton Shotmake, or shotmaster or somesuch... last time i looked they were pretty expensive (in the $350 range) and i thought that i could buy an aweful lot of #6 for the money... anyway, hope this helps
make good smoke
dukewellington
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I can't find anywhere that sells lead shot.
I live in the UK
I live in the UK
Very poorly.
Cut shot and "tailed" shot pattern badly.
Small shot that was mostly spherical could be made by a short drop into water.
BUT for best results it needs to be properly "fluxed". Arsenic was the preferred "flux" in the old days to make the lead more quickly form spheres when dropped. This is from memory but believe its correct.
Cut shot was usually tumbled to round it if shooting quality was important. But it made the shot expensive.
Watts shot tower of 1782 made everything else obsolete. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_tower
Gives some info.
Tall shot towers could produce much larger shot, up to musket size. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_Tower_(Dubuque)
If you plan on hunting with the shot, buy the round stuff (if possible). It works a lot better or tumble the heck out of cut shot.
Dan
Cut shot and "tailed" shot pattern badly.
Small shot that was mostly spherical could be made by a short drop into water.
BUT for best results it needs to be properly "fluxed". Arsenic was the preferred "flux" in the old days to make the lead more quickly form spheres when dropped. This is from memory but believe its correct.
Cut shot was usually tumbled to round it if shooting quality was important. But it made the shot expensive.
Watts shot tower of 1782 made everything else obsolete. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_tower
Gives some info.
Tall shot towers could produce much larger shot, up to musket size. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_Tower_(Dubuque)
If you plan on hunting with the shot, buy the round stuff (if possible). It works a lot better or tumble the heck out of cut shot.
Dan
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If you look around a bunch of the old cities, you will often find a building they call the Shot Tower. It's original purpose was for making lead shot.
In principle, you take molten lead up into a very high tower, and pour it through a screen of some sort - to break it up into small droplets. Those drops of lead then fall a LONG ways down during which they become somewhat spherical. At the bottom they fall into a tub of water to cool them. After they are cooled, they are taken out and sorted by size - run over screens or boards with progressively larger holes. The smaller pieces of shot fall through first, and then the next larger size, etc. until you have the largest pieces. Any too large or odd shaped can be re-melted.
A ladle with lots of small holes in it would do the same as a screen. It's purpose is to break up the poured lead into small segments. The air flow of it falling causes that Spherical shape. The Shot Tower provides a controlled drop space. It blocks off any wind, and keeps the hot lead from spreading out to the sides too much.
But most shot towers were also VERY TALL - as in a hundred feet tall or more.
I did not read the article in Muzzle Blasts, so I do not know how far of a drop they used in their experiments. I suspect it was less in height, and in a less controlled environment - due to finding a tall enough place to conduct their experiment. Modern theorizing could justify using less height, but sometimes there really is a reason for some of the old practices. Sometimes you just can't take shortcuts.
Just a few humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
p.s. Some old original molds had the large roundball cavity, and then several "buckshot" cavities as well - that buck-n-ball load. But casting individual small shot will quickly become a PITA.
In principle, you take molten lead up into a very high tower, and pour it through a screen of some sort - to break it up into small droplets. Those drops of lead then fall a LONG ways down during which they become somewhat spherical. At the bottom they fall into a tub of water to cool them. After they are cooled, they are taken out and sorted by size - run over screens or boards with progressively larger holes. The smaller pieces of shot fall through first, and then the next larger size, etc. until you have the largest pieces. Any too large or odd shaped can be re-melted.
A ladle with lots of small holes in it would do the same as a screen. It's purpose is to break up the poured lead into small segments. The air flow of it falling causes that Spherical shape. The Shot Tower provides a controlled drop space. It blocks off any wind, and keeps the hot lead from spreading out to the sides too much.
But most shot towers were also VERY TALL - as in a hundred feet tall or more.
I did not read the article in Muzzle Blasts, so I do not know how far of a drop they used in their experiments. I suspect it was less in height, and in a less controlled environment - due to finding a tall enough place to conduct their experiment. Modern theorizing could justify using less height, but sometimes there really is a reason for some of the old practices. Sometimes you just can't take shortcuts.
Just a few humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
p.s. Some old original molds had the large roundball cavity, and then several "buckshot" cavities as well - that buck-n-ball load. But casting individual small shot will quickly become a PITA.
If you can obtain lead sheet and cut into squares it will likely work if tumbled.
The problem is that pure lead shot deforms a lot in the gun under acceleration and causes "fliers" .
I do not see and easy fix for you. Sorry.
Can you get it in Europe and import it???
Dan
The problem is that pure lead shot deforms a lot in the gun under acceleration and causes "fliers" .
I do not see and easy fix for you. Sorry.
Can you get it in Europe and import it???
Dan
dukewellington
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Theres not many places in the UK that sell it. I can't find anything on google.
Also from memory... hope I get this right.
-Drip shot, aka Rupert shot, developed by Prince Rupert.
-Patent shot, or shot tower shot.
-Cut shot.
-Molded shot made in gang molds.
High quality Rupert shot has a dimple, not a tail, IIRC.
-Drip shot, aka Rupert shot, developed by Prince Rupert.
-Patent shot, or shot tower shot.
-Cut shot.
-Molded shot made in gang molds.
High quality Rupert shot has a dimple, not a tail, IIRC.
dukewellington
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I'm just going to use cheap air rifle pellets if nothing else.
BBs...at least those I'm familiar with here in the USW, are actually copper plated steel pellets so there would not be the normall "give" associated with soft lead when crowding through a choke for example.dukewellington said:
Also, depending on how thin the copper plating is you may get scouring of the bore walls if the steel forces through the copper wash.
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try putting "littleton shotmaker" into your favourite search engine, and you should get something interesting... the company's e- mail address is [email protected], and the smaller model is $375.00 (USD), a bit steep, and then there's the ever popular shipping and handling, value added tax and so on, but if you shoot a lot, and shot is hard to get, it might be a worthwhile investment... also note that this is set up for 110volt current; i can't remember if you use a different voltage in the UK
good luck!
make good smoke
good luck!
make good smoke
paulvallandigham
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There are TWO kinds of BBs made in this country. The one for air rifles are made of a harder steel, NOT LEAD, and are specifically .177" in diameter. The Non-toxic steel BBs are .180" in diameter, and should not be used in air rifles. The steel use is much softer, so it won't score the steel barrels and chokes of modern shotguns. However, its still needs to be loaded into a THICK plastic shot cup, to protect the bore from being scored, and eventually ruined by the harder shot. NEVER USE THE STEEL BBS SOLD FOR AIR RIFLES( PELLET RIFLES TO SOME) IN ANY SHOTGUN LOAD. They are WAY too hard, and will score your barrel.
I have not read if any of the other Non-toxic shot products are being made in that large a pellet size. #1 is the largest size shot ( .160")I can find for other Non-toxic shot products, at least according to their ads on line. Heavi-shot may have the greatest potential for being made in that large size shot, as its weight and hardness are the closest to lead.
Tungsten Matrix shot may be the best choice for softer, ML shotgun barrels, as it is softer than even Heavi-shot.
Remember that the reason people began shooting Non-toxic BBs for waterfowl hunting, was to gain more pellet energy from the lighter Steel shot first available. With the newer products being much heavier, you don't have to drop down 2 or 3 sizes from what you are normally used to using for waterfowl when Lead shot was legal. Ducks can be shot with #5 or 6 shot again, and geese with #2 or #3 shot again.
Copper plating does little to either harden shot, or make it do less damage to your barrel. Copper plated Lead shot DOES help the LEAD shot keep it round shape when the gun is fired, and that is why its used in both BP and smokeless powder shotguns. Copper plated lead shot is not legal to use in the USA to hunt waterfowl, sadly.
I have not read if any of the other Non-toxic shot products are being made in that large a pellet size. #1 is the largest size shot ( .160")I can find for other Non-toxic shot products, at least according to their ads on line. Heavi-shot may have the greatest potential for being made in that large size shot, as its weight and hardness are the closest to lead.
Tungsten Matrix shot may be the best choice for softer, ML shotgun barrels, as it is softer than even Heavi-shot.
Remember that the reason people began shooting Non-toxic BBs for waterfowl hunting, was to gain more pellet energy from the lighter Steel shot first available. With the newer products being much heavier, you don't have to drop down 2 or 3 sizes from what you are normally used to using for waterfowl when Lead shot was legal. Ducks can be shot with #5 or 6 shot again, and geese with #2 or #3 shot again.
Copper plating does little to either harden shot, or make it do less damage to your barrel. Copper plated Lead shot DOES help the LEAD shot keep it round shape when the gun is fired, and that is why its used in both BP and smokeless powder shotguns. Copper plated lead shot is not legal to use in the USA to hunt waterfowl, sadly.
I suspect that most bought what they needed, from their source for items that were no commonly made, shot was sent over and shows on invoice from at least the begininng of the 18th century, if puch came to shove I suspect they cut and rolled/hammered small pieces of lead this would be the most user friendly method in the bush.
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