Horn any opinions?

[Artificer]

This horn is a puzzle to be sure. The front end looks like it was sawed off so as not to have to drill a spout hole? But, someone installed a "bazillion" tacks around the rear end. What was up with that?

The front end also looks like it would be hard to pour into a measure without loosing powder each time?

This actually reminds me more of a horn used to store salt or perhaps other kinds of kitchen spices and then someone added the screws and shoelace to make it look like a powder horn.

Gus

 

[omarick1948]

:hmm: A hundred people warrants a hundred guess's!
Without holding this horn and examining closer, I couldn't tell you if it is an old original, toy, salt horn or movie prop!.......Don't let the paint throw you off, as there WERE painted powder and of painted horns made and examples in several reference books and collections. In the book:POWDER HORNS....documents of history" by Tom Grinslade [Scurlock Publishing Company Inc. copyright 2009, Pg. 153} shows an example of a painted powder horn. The texts suggest's, that painted powder horns had a brief popularity in the early 19th century, but use made the paint scratch off easily and the style of this horn decoration quickly fell.

As far as good reference books on powder horns and making them can be found a by ordering through TOW and online search. Amazon and eBay usually have several powder horn books listed, as well as the larger muzzle loading shops.

Hope this helped,
Rick

 

[ddoyle]

Thanks all for the input, I have been scouring Canadian museum collections- the ugliness, construction method and hanger hardware fit with early 19th to mid 20th century exmaples of Acadian, French, Native and Metis working horns (and or restaurant decorations). I have no reason to believe that it is older then me or that it ever held powder but it definetley matches the "idea" of what a powder horn was suppose to be to a large population of people who used them.

Sharing the image was more of an attempt to start a disscussion of horns outside of the limited time period/style that we usually see.

I agree the spout is wrong in some way- the plug actually has 2 diameters one well fitted and one crudely whittled it almost feels like the spout was longer or had a some what common brass/copper extension in place at one time. Maybe cut down to improve seal? The bored hole/cut does not seem to match the OEM work. Likely passes a standard drill bit.

As an aside and a nod to ignorance-I once sold what turned out to be a legit HBC horn for 20 dollars It was the ugliest and most modern looking horn out of a 100 piece collection of flasks/horns that I inherited. To my eye at that time it looked like something straight off the boat from India- Someone in Winnipeg with a relation at the Museum knew different. Karma being Karma while still stinging from that mistake I bought 2 trade knives and a tin of caps for 50 cents at a tear down sale of a Pt. Grey house where a Pigott relation resided at one time :grin: topped it off with a 5 dollar crude "bird Bath" of local stone that turned out to be a pre contact Musqeum mortar. fun stuff and cheap education compared to even a single under grad history course at a second rate college LOL.

 

[ddoyle]

Spence,

I agree that horn of yours- to my way of thinking- is 100X more interesting then alot of trophy horns. Also more pleasing to the hand and the eye. (and useable!).

When i see engraved horns I think of a stalled path forward, boredom and enforced idleness. Pride of ownership? maybe.
A man scratching excessively on horn (either in a whaling ship or trench) has no wife available to love, no kids to chase, no hog to butcher, no fiddle to play and no corn to dry. Barracks life and siege camps have always sucked. The Guy who made your horn had better things to do- like hunting and shooting stumps with his nieghbours. (Or visiting his nieghbour's wife while the other fellow was off scrimshawing in a typhoid and syphilis ridden camp :wink: )

 

[Rifleman1776]

Sure looks old. It is what it is. I wouldn't do anything to it.

 

[Artificer]

Though these links only cover between 1700 and 1785, this may be of some help.
https://www.scribd.com/document/288282719/Arms-Accoutrements-Powder-Horns-American-1700-1759
https://www.scribd.com/document/288283152/Arms-Accoutrements-Powder-Horns-American-1760-1769
https://www.scribd.com/document/288283500/Arms-Accoutrements-Powder-Horns-American-1770-1785

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Spence,

That sure is a nice small horn.

Was the end plug carved to fit to the natural end of the horn, or do you think it was boiled/heated and then the plug stuck in, or perhaps a combination of both? I can't always tell in some photo's.

Also, is there any sign of wood screw threading in the hole in the end plug?

How much powder does it hold, have you ever checked?


Gus

 

[George]

The end plug is distinctly oval, carved to fit the horn.

I've never figured out the hole in the plug, it was pretty deteriorated when I got the horn. No sign of threads, but the hole didn't go completely through as it would if used as a filling port. I decided it might have been for some sort of attachment knob for a strap, probably wooden, and rotted away. The horn is small enough, only 8", to fit into my small bags, though, so maybe it never had a strap. However, if not, why the shoulder at the spout?

It holds 1300 grains of FFg.

Spence

 

[George]

I agree the spout is wrong in some way-

It reminds me of a modern flat horn I have made by a dear old friend as a shot horn, not a powder horn.





Spence

 

[Artificer]

The end plug is distinctly oval, carved to fit the horn.

I've never figured out the hole in the plug, it was pretty deteriorated when I got the horn. No sign of threads, but the hole didn't go completely through as it would if used as a filling port. I decided it might have been for some sort of attachment knob for a strap, probably wooden, and rotted away. The horn is small enough, only 8", to fit into my small bags, though, so maybe it never had a strap. However, if not, why the shoulder at the spout?

It holds 1300 grains of FFg.

Spence

Spence,

Thank you for the follow up. That sure is interesting, and especially (at least for me) that the hole in the end plug does not go all the way through the end plug. I must sheepishly admit I wasn't sure how you were still using the horn as I did not know the hole did not go all the way through. :redface: :haha:

At 1300 Gr. capacity, that makes it a dandy "Day Horn."

Do you have any idea of the age of the horn? I realize it could have been made over a fairly long period?

Gus

 

[George]

I have no history on the horn. I bought it and a shot/hunting pouch at a local auction, $14, and the pouch was so dry rotted it soon turned to dust. That was very early in my BP experience, I didn't even take pictures. My bad.

Spence

 

[Artificer]

Spence,

Thank you or the follow up. That really is a nice little horn.

Gus

 

[excess650]

I was born in Pennsylvania and still live here. Horns like Spence's are often referred to as "farmer horns" and although old, still inexpensive when offered up for sale due to their numbers. Original shot pouches are still seen from time to time, but are badly deteriorated due to age.

 

[ddoyle]

Well this horn showed up today- Jackpot! I should retitled this thread "What you see in computer pics aint nuthin at all what it looks like in real life" - or "trust your instincts"

Yeah it is as old as dirt and if you ever held a prettier item (that was not wearing a skirt) in the fall light I'd be surprised.

feels like air or fine bone china in the hand- needs an inch of seam resealed with spruce pitch but I gotta practice alot/research before I mess with it. Of course the pitch will need to come from the Belle Province or at least north of Moncton.

Will be right at home in my collection.

yep keeping the nylon string and the house fly poop on it as it is part of it's path.

Thanks for the input.

 

[George]

Good. Sometimes the gut feeling works out. :grin:

Spence

 

[Ike Godsey]

Maybe you ike to consider this:

http://www.reenactor.ru/ARH/PDF/Grancsay.pdf

Ike