Help Identifying Flintlock

[Nodakr]

Larry Zornes Mold & Gun Shop lock.

Thank you sir !!

 

[unclelouie]

Hey everybody, new to these forums but not to muzzleloading.

Yesterday I came across this exceptionally well made flintlock in a local pawn shop. I have not stripped down yet, but there are absolutely no identifying marks anywhere other than what appears to be an “A” inside a circle, located on the stock, under the set trigger.

It does have a wooden slide cover for patches etc, much like a Pedersoli Jâger, but the craftsmanship is a notch or 2 better.

It is extremely w

your barrel appears to have 7 lands and grooves. that's a trademark of Bill Large who was the original owner of what became Green River rifle works. Doc White can maybe help you identify the maker. he is in Duchesne , Utah. his name is Gary White, he bought out Bill Large years ago. I don't know if they built a round bottom barrel though. but most of the early original barrels were odd number lands and grooves. they are the best shooters. iv'e building for years. that appears to be worth atleast 1500.00

 

[Mad L]

Just remember if you do venture to pull the barrel; the pins are usually Tapered so identify the larger end a bring it out that way, then best lay them out the way they came out so each go back into the same hole and in same direction.

Beautiful rifle!

 

[BadDaditood]

Never heard of tapered pins… WAYYYYY too much work

 

[DuncNZ]

A very nice rifle , way ahead of any Pedersoli I have seen . Well made , well used and worth buying . If I knew of a Pawn shop that sold rifles like that I'd hang around the front door .

 

[Coinneach]

A few more pics

Thats got to be a custom made piece IMHO.

 

[Coinneach]

Only adendum I would add is that my .40 came to me second hand and was in fantastic shape externally and the bore. But I decided to pull the barrel from the stock and the underside was very rusty. Had to use naval jelly to clean the pits out. So, that rifle looks fine. But a fine looking rifle can have issues.

My advice is to give the underside of the barrel a good coat of Marine grade grease, then pin it back in place, I do my kit ML's after final staining etc. you can seal up the stock with Beeswax after the barrels relocated. Then leave it in place.

 

[Nodakr]

A very nice rifle , way ahead of any Pedersoli I have seen . Well made , well used and worth buying . If I knew of a Pawn shop that sold rifles like that I'd hang around the front door .

I’m embarrassed to say what I paid for this flintlock, but it wasn’t much. I also bought a trade knife there last week in remarkable condition….for $15 lol

 

[Rudyard]

On a similar theme I came by the records of guns made by a Maurice Taylor if any reader owns such a gun I should be able to tell you what he recorded .as too who & when they were made He mention proof houses so presume he was English but many where exported & others made overseas They where all sorts inc some long rifles But many where exported or made overseas it seems .Feel free to PM me
Rudyard

 

[Rudyard]

Never heard of tapered pins… WAYYYYY too much work

There where tapered pins & usually all screws & pins went from the left hand side & towards the lock But it isn't a good plan & I make all mine uniform mostly just common nails as suitable . If I case harden like all other parts as a matter of course though Ive tested some high end noted US makers who seemingly sent them out in a soft state Ime meaning lock pates & side nails & all wood screws .But mine I case harden normally just the old charred bone, leather , hair, witches brew but works
. Regards Rudyard

 

[Coinneach]

There where tapered pins & usually all screws & pins went from the left hand side & towards the lock But it isn't a good plan & I make all mine uniform mostly just common nails as suitable . If I case harden like all other parts as a matter of course though Ive tested some high end noted US makers who seemingly sent them out in a soft state Ime meaning lock pates & side nails & all wood screws .But mine I case harden normally just the old charred bone, leather , hair, witches brew but works
. Regards Rudyard

I've always hardened my Battery /Frizzen myself using rasped off Bone powder wrapped in damp leather and held on with thin wire; bring it all up to heat under hot Coals while blowing through a long narrow tube to concentrate oxygen on the job at hand; you'd probably done that mate when I was still learning to walk !

 

[Rudyard]

I've always hardened my Battery /Frizzen myself using rasped off Bone powder wrapped in damp leather and held on with thin wire; bring it all up to heat under hot Coals while blowing through a long narrow tube to concentrate oxygen on the job at hand; you'd probably done that mate when I was still learning to walk !

Be about 1969 before I did that style of hardening By mid 70s I was full on .the Kasinit was OK but its about the same result only takes longer & probably stinks up the house .(I can't smell but I probably Do smell ) I was once case hardening in my front bedroom fire place in our old Edwardian house , I was about to tip the hot mess into the bucket of water when it slipped " .Boom " water everywhere in a tin burst apart mess ! I scrambled a bit but got away with it .
Just because I remember spending Farthings Doesn't mean Ime that old ! .
Regards Rudyard

Farthings I should perhaps explain where the value of a quarter of a Penny with 12 pennies to a Shilling and it was 20 to the Pound My first weeks wages where under 3 pounds today you probably have to pay that for a cup of tea .
in1965 I was three months in Morrocco on 10 pounds & a pound of that was for a nice Moroccan powder horn in Casablanca & I still have it .
First principal of ecconomy travel "If it's not comeing in it can't be going out. Or in US terms you got to' Make the Buffalo holler '
R

 

[smo]

Rudard,

I haven’t run across any guns signed bye that Maurice Taylor guy, but if I do….

I’ll be the first too let the Lt. know..

I hope you’re doing well..

 

[TFoley]

That ain't a Pedersoli. Lots of guys try their hand at carving and engraving. All but one of my guns were built by "somebody" but not by known builders. And they are all very well done. Some better than others. Funnily enough, some hobbyists today are as good or better than well known smith's of the 17th century.

...and the 18th century, when the long rifles flourished.

 

[Rudyard]

Rudard,

I haven’t run across any guns signed bye that Maurice Taylor guy, but if I do….

I’ll be the first too let the Lt. know..

I hope you’re doing well..

Dear Smo , Yes I wonder what happened to him he was evidently prolific , bit of a Nong by all accounts but put out a lot of diverse stuff going by his record book . Some fellow Name of R Hise seemed to be one of his best US customers ..
Regards Rudyard

 

[Rudyard]

...and the 18th century, when the long rifles flourished.

Perhaps you allude to the common mixing of the ' 18th 'when they really mean 1750s or some such date 1860 being 19th century easy to confuse Regards Rudyard

 

[oldwood]

As far as the barrel manufacturer , remove the barrel from the stock , the manufacturer name should be on the bottom flat , breech end. M/G is definitely Larry Zornes ......Mold and Gun shop. The rifle was made by a reputable gun stocker. Nice work..........oldwood

 

[Rudyard]

Might it have been Jim Hash ? he was thee most esteemed maker I knew. Larry Spisac was good even his first gun was brilliant but he was best known hopefully still is for his fiddling at R. vuos .Come too first time brilliance Bud Siler was skilled from the first rifle he made I once called on him he was having a Barbeque but he sold me some lock kits . I had earlier called on L .C .Rice it was near the end of the day he greeted me with a 1911 Colt through the fly screen . So I wandered off made camp & returned next day don't think he was home . I simply sought locks. Later when Bill Cox had L&R He told me L&R stood for' loose & rusty' his partner Went selling textiles at events & I traded a 12" worked back dirk blade for 4 & a half yard by 60" of a heavy woolen plaid I wanted , It had a blueish grayish tartan so I asked him " What clan was it ?'. He replied "Er generic Welch ". I said " That's good enough for me " & I've had about 24 years of use seldom far from it as attire or bedding certainly doesn't owe me anything . I sure had fun nye 17 years of endless summers doing events & R vous & gun shows .It's

As far as the barrel manufacturer , remove the barrel from the stock , the manufacturer name should be on the bottom flat , breech end. M/G is definitely Larry Zornes ......Mold and Gun shop. The rifle was made by a reputable gun stocker. Nice work..........oldwood

a hard job but somebodies got to do it ?.
. Regards Rudyard

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Likely a Getz barrel.

 

[French Colonial]

Might it have been Jim Hash ? he was thee most esteemed maker I knew. Larry Spisac was good even his first gun was brilliant but he was best known hopefully still is for his fiddling at R. vuos .Come too first time brilliance Bud Siler was skilled from the first rifle he made I once called on him he was having a Barbeque but he sold me some lock kits . I had earlier called on L .C .Rice it was near the end of the day he greeted me with a 1911 Colt through the fly screen . So I wandered off made camp & returned next day don't think he was home . I simply sought locks. Later when Bill Cox had L&R He told me L&R stood for' loose & rusty' his partner Went selling textiles at events & I traded a 12" worked back dirk blade for 4 & a half yard by 60" of a heavy woolen plaid I wanted , It had a blueish grayish tartan so I asked him " What clan was it ?'. He replied "Er generic Welch ". I said " That's good enough for me " & I've had about 24 years of use seldom far from it as attire or bedding certainly doesn't owe me anything . I sure had fun nye 17 years of endless summers doing events & R vous & gun shows .It's


a hard job but somebodies got to do it ?.
. Regards Rudyard

Jim Hash was one of the most talented people I have ever had the pleasure to know, from his wood smoke powered Ford, bending cast iron truck axles for hot rodders and yes, some of the highest quality muzzleloaders I have ever held, I constantly regret not buying one from him. The world lost a ton of knowledge and talent when Jim left us.

R.I.P. my friend.