Hawken Rifles, What's All The Hoopla?!

[Sage1]

Now, now, my gun club is a bunch of curmudgeon's but we have never turned away a new shooter with a traditional muzzleloader. Some members have unmentionable muzzleloaders and those don't compete in our matches. Members compete and do quite well with some inexpensive rifles.

There are some events and competitions that are very much concerned with everything being historically correct and period correct. When interested newcomers show up at my reenacting unit, we do all we can to help them out. Of course, we are not overly into the stitch counting and yes, we have had the Pedersoli armed soldiers in the unit. We even had one member with an EIC Third Model. Often, we find that we have to apply the 15 foot rule since from 15 feet away the flaws can't be seen.

Yes I realize this thread is two years old but maybe this will get read. Question: Why would Pedersoli rifles, specifically the Missouri and Rocky Mountain Hawken not meet the clubs standard? Made in Italy or design?

 

[Grenadier1758]

My response was with respect to two different organizations that shoot traditional muzzleloading firearms.

@Sage1, my reenacting unit as seen in my avatar is representative of a British Grenadier company in the French and Indian War. Our King's muskets would have been of the Long Land Pattern and the Pedersoli muskets are Short Land Pattern muskets which did not show up on American shores until the American War of Independance. That's why the Pedersoli Muskets don't meet our standard, but we do allow them. We didn't use rifles in the grenadier company so any rifle and especially percussion locks would not be allowed.

Now we can talk about my traditional muzzle loading rifle gun club. We are the J P Gemmer Muzzleloading Gun Club and the Pedersoli Missouri and Rocky Mountain rifles, all Traditional Muzzleloading rifles meet the club's standard. We are the host club for the Hawken Classic event. Traditional rifles are welcome. This year (2024) we are in downtown St. Charles and live fire is not allowed by the city.

 

[Rancocas]

I just never could particularly like the "Hawkens" plains rifles; in fact I didn't much care for halfstock rifles period. The fur trade era never interested me like the colonial/early American period did. I simply love most everything about longrifles as long as they use flint. The Hawkens plains rifles were heavy and many westerners preferred the Leman or other makes because of this. Many longrifles were carried west as they were quite common, relatively speaking.

I agree.

 

[Sage1]

My response was with respect to two different organizations that shoot traditional muzzleloading firearms.

@Sage1, my reenacting unit as seen in my avatar is representative of a British Grenadier company in the French and Indian War. Our King's muskets would have been of the Long Land Pattern and the Pedersoli muskets are Short Land Pattern muskets which did not show up on American shores until the American War of Independance. That's why the Pedersoli Muskets don't meet our standard, but we do allow them. We didn't use rifles in the grenadier company so any rifle and especially percussion locks would not be allowed.

Now we can talk about my traditional muzzle loading rifle gun club. We are the J P Gemmer Muzzleloading Gun Club and the Pedersoli Missouri and Rocky Mountain rifles, all Traditional Muzzleloading rifles meet the club's standard. We are the host club for the Hawken Classic event. Traditional rifles are welcome. This year (2024) we are in downtown St. Charles and live fire is not allowed by the city.

Thank you Grenadier1758.

 

[Mike in FL]

I agree.

Me too

 

[Patched]

Me too

Fair enough…but Hawken architecture mimicked Harper’s Ferry guns which mimicked English sporting rifles….serious durable guns used a very along way from the silk stockings store and the powdered wig parlor.

Like Glocks , Hawkens get a pass in “the gun universe “ because they do/did it best….foregoing the beauty contest part of the competition….
and thus holds weight when asked about hoopla…

 

[stephenprops1]

Fair enough…but Hawken architecture mimicked Harper’s Ferry guns which mimicked English sporting rifles….serious durable guns used a very along way from the silk stockings store and the powdered wig parlor.

Like Glocks , Hawkens get a pass in “the gun universe “ because they do/did it best….foregoing the beauty contest part of the competition….
and thus holds weight when asked about hoopla…

They say, "Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder." I like many historical time periods. I find many different styles of muzzleloaders beautiful. I do like the American Colonial rifles, and I like the Hawken style rifles too.

 

[reddogge]

Since the 70s, seeing an actual Hawken rifle made me giddy. I don't give a rat's patookas if they are clumsy, heavy, and unwieldy. An original and below, the copy made by Bob Browner for the state of Missouri.

 

[springfield art]

I've never owned or even fired one for that matter, but have noticed them around a lot and are extremely well-known in the black powder community, more so than any other model I've ever notice before.

What is it that makes it such a standard? View attachment 160713
View attachment 160715

IDK, I guess it's just the sleek simplicity of the final development of the percussion cap design. I have an old Uberti and a Lyman GPR and like the caliber (mine's .54). I think the scholarship offered by Bob Fill and others has had a lot to do with the popularity.

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

And the man who drives a Jaguar asks - Corvettes, What's All The Hoopla?!

 

[smoothshooter]

Hawken and Hawkenesque rifles are good shooters, handle well and fit most average size shooters.

The shorter barrel (compared to a long rifle) and the half stock, cut down on weight making it a relatively easy rifle to tote around on a hunt.

With most modern versions having the 1:48 twist they work well with roundball and conical.

They have an iconic look that even the wannabe and knock off versions impress the rubes.

What is not to love here?

Hawken barrels may have been shorter than eastern rifles, but they added even more weight because of the much thicker barrels.

 

[stephenprops1]

Hawken barrels may have been shorter than eastern rifles, but they added even more weight because of the much thicker barrels.

The Hawken and other great plains rifle designs came about because of the bigger game out west. Lewis & Clark reported that they were going to need larger caliber rifles due to bison, grizzly bears, and such.

 

[Mike in FL]

I don't reckon a 54 Hawken shoots and better than a 54 long rifle. Part of their appeal might have been that they were more sturdy.

 

[Bad Karma]

Fair enough…but Hawken architecture mimicked Harper’s Ferry guns which mimicked English sporting rifles….serious durable guns used a very along way from the silk stockings store and the powdered wig parlor.

Like Glocks , Hawkens get a pass in “the gun universe “ because they do/did it best….foregoing the beauty contest part of the competition….
and thus holds weight when asked about hoopla…

Too bad the English Sporting Rifle never really caught on in the US… excellent balance of power and weight in a simple and elegant design.

 

[smoothshooter]

I don't reckon a 54 Hawken shoots and better than a 54 long rifle. Part of their appeal might have been that they were more sturdy.

Being shorter they would have been easier to manage on a horse.
But there were plenty of other long guns that were as short as the Hawken and Dimmick rifles.

 

[Okie Hog]

Never became interested in the original Hawken gun.

The modern Hawken knockoffs, especially the TC models, with their very shallow rifling, are not accurate, especially when patched round balls are fired.

My current "Hawken" is a Navy Arms model. i remodeled the butt plate with a Sawzall and had he barrel reamed to .54 caliber with one turn 1/66"rifling and rounded grooves.

 

[Sage1]

Never became interested in the original Hawken gun.

The modern Hawken knockoffs, especially the TC models, with their very shallow rifling, are not accurate, especially when patched round balls are fired.

My current "Hawken" is a Navy Arms model. i remodeled the butt plate with a Sawzall and had he barrel reamed to .54 caliber with one turn 1/66"rifling and rounded grooves.

Well there ya go. I’ll work on tightening up these groups. Three through the same hole yesterday with my TC .50 and std sights.

 

[Polecat_Tom]

The modern Hawken knockoffs, especially the TC models, with their very shallow rifling, are not accurate, especially when patched round balls are fired.

I would beg to differ with you. Although I no longer have my TC, when I did have it I won numerous matches. I rarely placed below third in any club matches and beat many more expensive guns.