great plains rifle

[muzzleloader55]

how historical accurate is the Lymans greatplains 50 cal. flintlock

 

[mykeal]

The GPR is a good example of the style of rifle used during the period when Hawken rifles were made. It is not an exact copy of any specific rifle made during that time frame.

And it's a damn good rifle in it's own right.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

it is probably the closest production rifle you'll find, and is a fine rifle to boot.

FWIW

 

[jbtusa]

For a production rifle it is about as close as possible to that style of original rifle. The GPR is a great rifle: reliable and great accuracy. IMO it is the best production gun out there in that price range.

 

[CaptainKirk]

As Mykeal said, It's not a copy of any particular gun or maker's style, but rather, a conglomeration of the popular features of the day.
For a first gun, hard to go wrong!

 

[ebiggs1]

Can you spot the original?

 

[hockeyref]

My guess would be #2..... Or #4

 

[Billnpatti]

I'm pretty sure the correct one is number 5 but I've been wrong before. I think it was back in 1960 something but I don't remember the actual date. :rotf:

 

[hockeyref]

I would like to see #5 in a better pic - showing the full butt in particular. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the nasty sharp crescent shape of the Lyman GPR butt was much softer and less pronounced on the authentic ones.

 

[Ken Cormier]

I couldn't tell ya which is orginal.My best friend has a gpr and it is one shootin son of a gun no pun intended.

 

[BrownBear]

Can you spot the original?

Point taken!!!! :hatsoff:

Very nicely done.

 

[Dphar]

how historical accurate is the Lymans greatplains 50 cal. flintlock

In a general way its qualifies as a traditional style rifle. But like all the factory mades the lines and shaping stink on close examination.
Its not possible for the companies who make these things to spend the required time to make them right.
Western Arms had a good copy of a Hawken made and sent to Uberti to copy. They could not do the stock shaping necessary to make a copy of a Hawken. I think the current "Santa Fe Hawken" is based on this rifle. But the stock shaping is "20th century drum sander" so the shaping and lines are less than they should be.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

Can you spot the original?

#3 is the closest but it looks like it has TOW parts and other possible problems but the photo leaves a lot to be desired.

Dan

 

[piteruu]

How correct is half stock (hawken style!), flintlock rifle?? It is not easy to find original rifle like this.

 

[ebiggs1]

This is and has been the problem with the HC/PC genre.
It is an ambiguous position to take at best. Very studied people disagree on how a firearm should look down to the smallest detail.
I am glad some folks spend the required amount of time doing so but they should let other folks be happy with their choices.

 

[caionneach]

how historical accurate is the Lymans greatplains 50 cal. flintlock

I have one in .54 flintlock, and to answer your question, the Hawken brothers did make flintlock rifles in the plains-type style in their early years. The chief difference is the pistol grip-style trigger guard is flatter against the stock than those known from the later, percussion rifles. And the metal is brown rather than blue.

And on that point, how does one make a Lyman GPR production rifle more accurate than what it is? Sure, I could leave it like it is and that would be just fine, but it would be nice to remove the bluing if possible and change out the color case hardened lock for a different lock. Changing those two things, bluing for browning and a different lock that is browned, would make it fit in better if I were to go to a pre-1840s style rendezvous.

 

[phoenix511]

The Lyman GPR is a great, low cost, solution to a fairly accurate depiction of a Hawken-style rifle.

The factory GPR sights are some sort of modernized, adjustable rear, so need to be replaced if you are wanting to be historically correct.

The coil spring lock is a modern version, but no one can see its internals. The set trigger uses some wire springs, again nothing one can see from the outside.

As sold, it is a fine bargain and a good shooter. They appear to come in a 1/70" twist for RB, and a 1/32" for a conical, which is not historically accurate but deadly on game.

You can, with some work, replace the adjustable rear sight by making a dovetail and installing a semi-buckhorn or similar sight.

My GPR rifle, purchased some 30 years ago, has a stock of unknown wood species, maybe Beech, but the new ones look to me like walnut and are more attractive.

One can "upgrade" the GPR with an L&R lock (a good investment), Davis set triggers, a Green Mountain barrel (see ToTW), a superior maple stock (also ToTW, which leaves you with the buttplate, trigger guard, and tang as original to the Lyman GPR and about the same price as a kit for the equivalent Hawken-style rifle.

For me, the upgrade to the Green Mountain barrel produced a reduction in group sizes to about half that of the original Lyman barrel, which was capable of taking a whitetail deer under most patched RB conditions. The GM is fun to shoot, but as for hunting, the original works just fine.

You will be amazed at the improvement the replacement L&R lock makes, but you will need to remove some wood from the lock recess to fit the flat spring.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

how historical accurate is the Lymans greatplains 50 cal. flintlock

I have one in .54 flintlock, and to answer your question, the Hawken brothers did make flintlock rifles in the plains-type style in their early years. The chief difference is the pistol grip-style trigger guard is flatter against the stock than those known from the later, percussion rifles. And the metal is brown rather than blue.

And on that point, how does one make a Lyman GPR production rifle more accurate than what it is? Sure, I could leave it like it is and that would be just fine, but it would be nice to remove the bluing if possible and change out the color case hardened lock for a different lock. Changing those two things, bluing for browning and a different lock that is browned, would make it fit in better if I were to go to a pre-1840s style rendezvous.

Pulling the bluing off the barrel is less than a 5 minute job once you've pulled the barrel out of the stock. Go buy some Birchwood Casey Rust and Bluing remover and a bottle of isopropyl alcohol if you don't already have some hiding around the house.

- Use the alcohol as a de-greaser to wipe down the barrel and remove any oils from it.

- Then daub on the Birchwood Casey remover. Use a shoe polish dauber if you can get one, otherwise just daub it onto the barrel with a soft cloth (don't wipe it on).

- Set barrel aside for a few minutes as directed in the remover's instructions (only a minute or two if I recall correctly).

- use 0000 steel wool to buff off the bluing. This part might take you a minute.

If you skipped the de-greasing part, you may have to scrub a bit wherever there was some oil residue on the barrel, but it's really not a big deal. This stuff pulls it down to bare metal with very little effort. It is very easy to use.

Then you can get some "cold browning" solution or "hot browning" solution to brown the barrel, which is a little more involved.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[LaBonte]

I have one in .54 flintlock, and to answer your question, the Hawken brothers did make flintlock rifles in the plains-type style in their early years. The chief difference is the pistol grip-style trigger guard is flatter against the stock than those known from the later, percussion rifles. And the metal is brown rather than blue.

Actually your statements are in error:
1) The only known Hawken Bros plains rifle that can be verified to be a flinter is one made by Sam Hawken circa 1852-53. While they most likely did make flinters earlier there is no absolute documentation for verification based on the current record base - there are existing examples of early, pre-1825, Sam Hawken built flinters but they are not plains rifles.
2) The flat to wrist trigger guard is in fact a product of the early 1840's or at earliest the very late 1830's. The earliest Hawken Bros guards were in fact off the wrist, but had an almost round end rather than the later ovate one. See the so-called Peterson or Dunham rifles for examples of a couple of the earliest known guards.
3) All of the surviving Hawken plains rifles were originally blued (rust blued most likely) - browning would have been available, but the known originals the barrels were blued not browned. Over time rust blueing reverts to the brwon stage, so the existing ones do look brown, but in protected areas the blue still shows. The other iron parts such as buttplate, trigger guard, etc. were case hardened iron, but not color cased, more of a French grey color.


As to the GPR being PC - it's an OK but generic example of the 1840-50's half stocks, but is not a particularly good example of the Hawken - comparing simple pics is not really all that good a comparison especially when you've handled the originals - yes there were variations but a real Hawken has unmistakeable details seldom seen on copies, even many good customs, unless one has handled the originals.

 

[Darkgael]

One can "upgrade" the GPR with an L&R lock (a good investment), Davis set triggers, a Green Mountain barrel (see ToTW), a superior maple stock (also ToTW, which leaves you with the buttplate, trigger guard, and tang as original to the Lyman GPR and about the same price as a kit for the equivalent Hawken-style rifle.

I had to smile at that description. I can see some one doing that (me, for instance0 and doing it incrementally - one bit now, another later - and still thinking about "my GPR".
It reminds me of what some shooters do with Ruger .22 target pistols - Change the grips, change the insides with a Volquartsen kit and add a Volquartsen upper so that only the frame and magazines are Ruger.
Have I done these things? Yep.
Pete