Flintlock Skeet

[roundball]

Thanks for the suggestions guys...looks like I'm all set

 

[paulvallandigham]

Happy to do so. I only wish Jim visited the site often enough to answer this himself.

He uses only OS cards in his 20 gauge fowler.

The powder goes in first, of course, followed by 4 OS Cards. He puts a lump of grease between the 3rd and 4th cards, to lube the barrel. Then goes in the shot, followed by 2 OS Cards.

All his OS cards have off-center hole punched into them with an awl. This lets air out so it doesn't burst the sides, or edges of the cards, and destroy the SEAL, which is why he is using the cards ( or others use wads) in the first place. The cards are loaded so that NONE of the 4 holes line up with the ones around it. A simple !2,3,6 & 9 o'clock positioning of the 4 wads does the job.

The first four cards can be run down the barrel together. Air behind the cards will filter through the powder and out the vent hole. But once the 4 cards are in place, air becomes trapped between them, and the 2 cards that come over the shot( "OS" cards). Line the two OS cards at 12 and 6 o'clock positions, and they will go down the barrel easily and let the air escape out the hole in each of them, stopping "dieseling".

_________

I have changed his approach to this loading by SKIPPING the ball of wax/grease between the 3rd and 4th cards over the powder, and instead, I use a lubed cleaning patch in front of my jag, when I drive down the 2 Over Shot Cards on top of the shot. The cleaning patch comes back out, and I have greased the entire bore in front of the shot load.

Benefits of my approach:

1. The barrel is protected from rusting on a hunt.

2. The greased bore lets the SHOT SLIDE over the barrel, rather than rubbing lead OFF ONTO the barrel. The absense or reduction of lead streaks keeps the pellets round, and improves both the Number of pellets in the pattern, and the Shape of the pattern.

3. The lubed barrel still softens the fowling for easy cleaning.

4. The lube in the barrel "feeds" the patch of a PRB when I choose to load that instead of shot, helping to keep the patch full of lube as the PRB exits the barrel.
________

I am not trying to change anyone's mind, nor criticizing Jim's way of doing things. I am sure it works, as well as using the more traditional "lubed" cushion wad. Jim's method gets the OS cards to drop away from the line of fire quickly, so that the wads are not bumping the back of the shot when all leave the muzzle, causing " donut " hole patterns.

The ONLY difference in his technique and my modification is that my way helps to eliminate lead deposits in the bore, rust in the barrel on long hunts in bad weather, and the affect on pattern shape from lead streaks in the bore.

Both ways eliminate the donut hole patterns that occur when the wads used over the powder are too heavy, and tend to follow the shot column to at least 25 yards( I have seen the holes in my paper patterning targets).

The last time I was shooting my shotgun before Jim posted his technique here more than 2 years ago, I was splitting those cushion wads in 3s, and using only a third of the cushion wad to try to stop the donut hole patterns.

I had not yet figured out how to end the lead streaks, and how they cause subsequent deterioration of patterns. I was actually keeping a second Range Rod at the loading bench with a Bore Brush on it, and Hoppe's Lead solvent, to scrub out the lead deposits between relays.

That is more work than what I am doing now with lubing the barrel after seating the last 2 OS Card.
Sometimes, the KISS principle works.

In this case, Iron Jim Rackham hit a home run by reducing the number of wads you have to take into the field. When you are only able to shoot 2 pheasants a day, carrying several different wads is not much of a burden. But, if you want to take your gun out to shoot dove, with a 15 bird per day bag limit, and a bird well known for being able to turn on a dime, and give back 9 cents in change, you should expect to need LOTS of Cards, lots of shot, and lots of powder. The National average for dove hunters using modern guns is 7 shots fired for every bird killed. Now go out and take that bag limit with a flintlock!

:wink: :thumbsup: :shocked2: :rotf: :rotf: :hatsoff:

 

[robinghewitt]

I'd "kill" to have a double .28ga Flintlock :grin:

I have a 24 gauge but it isn't a clay gun, at least not while I'm holding it :hmm:

 

[roundball]

Looks to be in great shape...thanks for posting it...now I'll be mumbling in my sleep

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

Thanks I will not loose it this time! Perhaps a thin greased felt wad between 3 and 4 would do the same thing as the grease wad? Have you tried any of the many methods of a paper shot cup to keep the shot off the barrel? I am think about this also.
Again....Thank You!

:bow: :bow: :bow:

 

[Dave K]

I tried every which way with some sort of paper shot cups. All I got consistantly was slugs instead of patterns.But, don't let me stop you from trying. You never know, you may find the formula that works. Besides, for me it was just too easy and simple, to grab the shot flask and just send the shot down the barrel.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have tried paper shot cups in my 12 gauge, but not yet in my fowler. I found that you had to slit the mouth of the cup to get the cup to release predictably the shot outside the muzzle. I believe that the length of the cuts determines when the release occurs, and can result in tighter pattern when the cuts are short, and delay the release of the shot even for a few feet. I just have not had the opportunity to work on this systematically to find out what variations in shot patterns are possible with cups with different numbers of slits, or different lengths of cuts.

If you reload modern shotgun shells, and are familiar with the wide assortment of plastic wads available, different companies make their wads with different shapes, and slits , and there are a few types that have twice the number of slits to allow the shotcup to open faster and give more open patterns at close range. I think this is a similar idea to what I want to explore with my paper shotcups. I found, using 3M Post-it note paper, that I could get a shotcup that would remain intact, if I wrapped two complete layers or circles around my mandrill before gluing the strip with its self adhesive glue strip. If I use three, I created a funny looking "slug !" If I use one wrap, the cup blew up outside the muzzle. I have to take a micrometer to the paper and then measure other paper or card stock mentioned here, to see if there is something that is simpler to use- like a coin wrapper would be. One the couple of patterns I shot and counted using the Shotcup I did make, I was getting Improved Cylinder to Modified patterns from my cylinder bore gun. That can add 5-10 yards to the killing range of a load, so its nothing to sneeze at. The cups used had for slits, and about 1 inch deep, similar to the slits in the sides of plastic cups.

I had previously thought of putting plastic strips of various widths in the plastic cups I use in my modern guns, to restrict the shot in the cup, so its delayed in its release, to see if I could tighten patterns in an old DB hammer breechloader that is also cylinder bore. By varying the width of the strips, that circle the inside of the cup, I could control how much shot is released when the petals open and become air brakes in front of the muzzle.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The only problem I see using the grease soaked felt wads is the weight of them. And I don't know how much grease will be pressed out to lube the bore, or how consistently this will be done shot for shot.

I know it doesn't lube the barrel in front of the shot, to help reduce, or eliminate lead streaks being rubbed off the shot on the perimeter of the load onto the inside of the bore.

The downside is once again you add another wad you have to carry and keep in a separate pocket. That will violate the KISS principle, no? I have some pre-lubed cushion wads for both my 12 and 20 gauge guns. When they are used up, I will not buy more. If I can find someone who wants them more than I do, I will be through with them sooner!

 

[roundball]

I tried every which way with some sort of paper shot cups. All I got consistantly was slugs instead of patterns.But, don't let me stop you from trying.

Don't know who that is directed at Dave so in case it was to me I'll clarify that I have no plans to be shooting any shot cups or stacks of os cards with little holes punched in them with 90 degree offsets, etc, etc.

I get excellent patterns using prelubed Circle Fly cushion wads or Oxyoke prelubed wool wads, depending on which smoothbore and which load I'm using...and the prelubed wads let me shoot without wiping between shots.

I was mainly looking for operations tips like yours about the ramrod holder, and the tip about wax paper as "powder charge carriers" so there's no 35mm film canister to stow.
Just tear, pour, stuff, and seat wad...then shot & card.
Planning to have the OP wads & wax paper powder carriers in the same pocket to bring a pair up to the muzzle at the same time.


(I think the parchment paper suggestion was only meant as an alternative to wax paper)

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

Paul, I was not talking about using full sized fiber wads soaked with grease. I was trying to describe very thin felt wads greased. I may have not explained this very well as I often do!!
I have a friend who makes paper sleves, no bottom.
he short starts the bottom of the shot column to the depth of the shot charge, just slightly deeper
so the OC wad can fit. Put the sleve in the barrel
then pour in your shot and cap it off with the OS wad and ram the entire column down. He too has been trying different depths of cuts on the sleves. He has got outstanding results once you figure out the pieces of the puzzle. These paper sleves he carries flattened out in a pocket. Once you pour the shot in the sleve will round out. I am going to try the OS card system with my friend's sleve system. I hate leading up my smoothbore barrels shooting shot!

Lets keep this thread going there is some great information getting out!
:thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I am afraid of getting a " sleeve" made of paper in particular, stuck part way down the barrel, with the shot and cushion wad going on past it! I don't need to deal with that kind of bore obstruction!

What I have done with the 3M post-it note paper cups, is to wrap them around a mandrill, then fold the end over a 20 gauge OP wad( about 1/8" thick), as you would close a dime coin wrapper. Then with the cup on the mandrill, I dip the closed end in liquid parafin wax, about 1/2" deep, and then stand the wad closed end down on a piece of wax paper to cool on the counter next to the stove. The wax cools quickly, and seals the cup. I remove the sealed cup from the mandrill, and wrap the next paper around the mandrill and repeat the operation. I use a cat food can holding the wax, sitting in a shallow pan of water, so that I am using a " double boiler" arrangement to keep from having the wax light on fire.

The cuts in the open end of the cup are make with scissors later. I found that the cups few about 15 yds, but released the shot much sooner, unless I made the slits pretty short. Since I didn't take a ruler out that first day-- I was just trying to see if the cups would survive the trip down the barrel, and what kind of pattern would be seen at 25 yds-- I decided to sit down and write up a series of tests to be conducted the next time I get out with the gun and a bag full of cups. I will cut them before loading, at the range, so I can test various lengths of cuts, and keep the pattern sheets to record, and study.