First Time Taking the Jukar 45 to the Range

[AndrewTannerCa]

I took the Jukar 45cal percussion rifle out for the first time today and have a few observations / questions.

1) I tried powder loads between 40 and 65 (fffg Pioneer powder) and never got better than about a 16" group at 50 yards. I'm sure a big part of it was the horrible trigger break on this rifle.
2) After 8 or 9 shots, it began to get a bit difficult to load the ball. I attached my brush attachment to my ramrod and scrubbed the bore. Afterwards I ran a few clean dry patches to pick up the residue.
3) after cleaning, I moved to 60 grains and had my first misfire. It took 6 caps for the load to fire. When it did fire, it was a hangfire.
4) three other times, all with over 60 grains, I had misfires followed by hangfires. Each one took more than 4 caps to finally ingite.
5) as with my 50 cal CVA pistol, this rifle shoots way low with a 6 oclock hold. I had to hold it on the top of the target stand 18" above deal center of the bullseye in order to get close to on target.
5) This was also my first time using my new Ohio Ramrod. It was great!

Background on the rifle for those who don't remember my other thread. This rifle was put together by my grandpa 40ish years ago and never fired.

Any tips on the misfires / low shooting?

 

[Greg Hardy]

As for the misfires, you could have pushed some fouling down to the nipple vent or a bit of solvent got down there. As far as the low shooing, just try lowering the front sight a bit. Had the same problem with my CVA Kentucky that I got in a package deal. Once I shortened the front sight, started hitting dead on.

 

[paulvallandigham]

What were your spent patches telling you? I suspect that you are using too thin a patch, that they are shredding, or burning up, and that is causing both difficulty in getting closer to the POA, as well as spreading out the group.

If it is similar to mine, the muzzle is cut flat and there is hardly any crown to the muzzle. That means you can cut those patches- no matter how thick or thin they are, just starting them down the muzzle. If the patch is torn, its simply not going to seal gases, much less do it consistently.

Always read each and every spent patch you fire. It tells you all kinds of information about what is happening inside that barrel.

What diameter ball? What diameter is the bore- in thousandths of an inch, please? What thickness of patch are you using? What lube are you applying to the patch, and when, and how much?

I suspect that when you finally got around to cleaning that barrel, you didn't dry it after using some lubed or damp patches down the bore. You want to clean with a damp patch, not a soaking or dripping wet one. If you liquify crud, by using too much water of cleaning fluid on your patch, it will leak down through the powder chamber, and down into the flash channel, where it will remain unless its BLOWN OUT, or removed by flushing the barrel with alcohol, so that the evaporating alcohol will remove the moisture. Remove the nipple if you go so far as to flush the barrel with alcohol, and clean it, too.

You will be amazed at how much crud builds up in front of the nipple, in that flash channel. NO cap will burn that stuff out reliably, no matter how many caps you fire. The fire from a cap can heat up the moisture to steam, but the small hole in the nipple doesn't give that steam much of a place to EXIT, before it cools down and become liquid, again. The spent cap on the top of your nipple often prevents any steam from escaping, too.

Using a cap to blow out crud from the flash channel CAN WORK, PROVIDED that there is NO POWDER CHARGE in the barrel that blocks the movement of the primer residue, and the crud you are trying to move out of the flash channel. The technique rarely works when you have a loaded gun, that blocks this effort. I am surprised that you finally got the load to fire, altho the hang-fire would be expected under these circumstances. Usually, you have to unscrew the nipple( take a nipple wrench in your kit whenever you are shooting a percussion gun) and put some dry powder directly under the nipple, to get the charge to ignite and blow out the barrel. Then you begin cleaning all over again, using alcohol to finish it to get the crud now of that flash channel.

All this may seem a royal PITA, and it is, until you understand and learn the importance of technique in both loading, and cleaning your gun. Then you find yourself cleaning the gun before it goes out to the range, or field, you wipe between shots, you read your dirty cleaning patches to tell you how the humidity is affecting the powder in the barrel, and begin using drying patches to cry the bore when your cleaning patch comes out all slick black in color- and feeling wet. when you learn how to keep the gun clean, it becomes a consistent and reliable firing rifle, and you then can concentrate on its accuracy in your hands. :thumbsup:

 

[rawhide]

sounds like you had some moiter in the drum after cleaning. or fowling. to remedy I run a nipple pick in the nipple. if that don't work pull the nipple then put some powder under it then reistall nipple some times works. as for your powder I tried that stuff and had lots of problems. I switched to 777 had ben having good luck with it. I have one juckers in .45 a kentucky my load is 60 grains of 777 FFg and a cast .440 ball and .015 pillow ticking patch. or goex FFg black powder. oh patches are lubed with crisco.

 

[S.Kenton]

I have a CVA 45 in a percussion as well.Mine shot very low as well..I filed a bit on the front sights.. still shot low. So, I ordered new sights that had an elevation adjustment from "the Log Cabin Sports Shop" in Ohio. They worked great and looked period correct as well.
As for your misfires go.. just swab between shots with a spit patch.. just DAMPEN the patch in your mouth..not too wet.The run it down the pipe. Then flip the patch over and swab with the clean side..follow this up with a dry patch using both sides to swab. That should cure your misfires.. also.. try a different powder. 777 is good but expensive in my area..I now use Goex FFFG. I like it and will continue using it.
let us know how ya do the next time ya shoot and pics of your patches would be helpfull in determining wether or not they're burning up..or shredding. You can find the patches about 25 ( give or take) feet in front of where your shooting, maybe off to the left/right slightly, depending on the wind that day.Hope this helps!

 

[AndrewTannerCa]

ok, let's see if I can answer all the questions! (maybe next time I'll put all the info in my original post) hah.

When I scrubbed the barrel I didn't use any lube, solvent, water, etc. I ran several clean dry patches down the barrel afterwards.

After each misfire, I ran a nipple prick through to make sure it had a clean path.

The first shot I took (first ever for this rifle) was also a misfire, but I don't remember hearing the cap go off.

I couldn't find any of my patches.

Patches were both .10 and .15 pre-lubed. I switched back and forth to see if it made a difference.

Shooting a .440 ball. Muzzle looks to be .445 - .461 depending on how I measure it.

This was also the first time I used my Traditions "hunter's flask" to pour and measure powder. Last time I pre-measured and stored in quick loaders.

 

[RADeO]

Andrew, have you tried running a pipe cleaner through the flash channel between the drum and powder chamber? Might be some crud hiding in there that is preventing the cap flash from getting to the powder in a timely manner. Just a thought.

 

[AndrewTannerCa]

I'll try that. Thanks

 

[rafterob]

It is more likely to have misfires with synthetic powder than with real black powder because it takes a higher temp to set it off(American Pioneer has the worst reputation of all the synthetics). But I believe the misfire problem came from your "cleaning". Do not use the brush, except for final cleaning of the rifle.The minute you push that brush down, it scrapes a ton of fouling off the sides and in to the flash channel. Some people swab between shots and some only after loading gets a little sticky-you choose. The method was already offered;Run a dampened patch down the bore, let it sit a few seconds giving the moisture a little time to loosen the fouling. Remove the patch, do not scrub up and down. Reverse the patch and repeat the proceedure. Then follow up with a dry patch or two. Let me also warn you about sending a dry patch down a fouled barrel, you are likely to get it stuck.

 

[jethro224]

1) You're probably right about the horrible trigger pull contributing to the large groups. I've heard there is an adjustment screw on some of those guns, not there on others. One I had the trigger was just pinned thru the stock wood and the pin was bent. Worked much better after straightening the pin.

2)&3) I agree with what the others have already said about pushing crud down into the flame channel and their tips on cleaning.

4) As I recall the Pioneer powder has really large sized granules compared to other powders. They may be bridging and not getting down close to the flame channel and nipple. If you can find some real 3F blackpowder try it. I think you would like it. Pyrodex P would be my 2nd choice.
Make sure you remove the spent cap and place the hammer in the half-cock position while loading. This allows the air to escape and powder to be blown as close as possible to the nipple when you ram the ball down. Slapping the lock side after pouring the powder and before ramming the ball may also help.
Also check to make sure the nipple threads are not too long and blocking too much of the flame channel. If your gun has a clean-out screw this is real easy to see by looking into the clean-out hole with the nipple installed.

5) File the front sight down to raise the point of impact. But don't do it until after you get the gun to shoot good groups. Get the group first, it doesn't matter where it groups aim the same every time, then adjust your sights.

Look for your shot patches about 10-20 yards downrange and maybe a bit downwind too. If you still can't find any try shooting into the open end of a cardboard box at 10 yards. The ball will pass thru and the box will catch patches.

This was also the first time I used my Traditions "hunter's flask" to pour and measure powder.

You're not loading straight from the flask are you? Don't do that! Always load from a separate measure. In the rare event there is still a burning ember down bore that flask could turn into a bomb.

 

[DUSTY 14]

heard a new tip the other day. if the ball was hard to get down the barrel take a wet patch and push down the barrel over top of THAT load. keep it pointed down range etc. even if you lose the patch it is going to come out real soon. have tried and it works great. cannot plug the fire channel or wet the powder as it is blocked by your load. and you need to try doubling the thin patch to see if that shoots better

 

[William O.]

Okay, as others have pointed out, the type of powder you are using may be the cause of the misfires but also contributes to accuracy problems. Try switching to traditional black powder such as Goex. You will have to ask for it by name at the gun counter of your local store because by ATF rules they can't advertise it and must keep it locked in a fire proof safe out of sight. The manager may be the only one with a key as well as the only one who knows what Goex is. Do not use "smokeless" powder in your muzzle loader and nor let someone tell you it's the same stuff. If you just can't find it then I would go with Triple 7, a so called black powder substitute. Some folks prefer pyrodex, but you must use loose powder as compressed sticks or pellets won't work in your sidelock. Start with 35 or 40 grains of powder and shoot three times aiming at the same place on the target, swabbing the barrel with an alcohol dampened (not soaked or dripping) cleaning patch in between shots, or every three shots. The alcohol will remove 90% of the crud and keep loading easy. You can also use two or three of those patches before leaving the range and your final clean up will be faster when you get home. 91% rubbing alcohol works great. After three shots, increase your powder amount by 5 grains, repeat. Eventually your groups will get tighter, then start to open up. Go back down 5 grains and you've found how much powder your rifle shoots best with. Until you find out how much powder your rifle likes, don't change anything. Use the same type and thickness of patch and don't adjust your sights. Practice being consistent. Then later on you can start to change things like the type and amount of lube, patch material and thickness, adjust and/or file your sights, etc. Just for the time being I would recommend that you use pre-cut/pre-lubed patches. Someone else with more experience with that type of rifle and caliber can suggest the best patch thickness to start with.

 

[hounddog]

Gentlemen, OOne thing I always do is to run my trusty hat pin thru the nipple after every shot, a little crud in the nipple can cause hangfires. for me at least hangfires and popping caps with no powder going off is virtually a thing of the past. keep that nipple clean and have more fun cuts down on the cussin too hounddog

 

[russecv58]

i'd suggest starting out by giving the barrel a good cleaning with soap and hot water. then use a pipe cleaner to make sure the drum is clear. would definitely reccomend some real BP in either 2f or 3f (experienced a fair ammount of hangfires with substitute powders). as for load, my cva rifle likes 60gr of 3f, .440 ball, and pillow tick patch lubed with manteca lard. the stock triggers are terrible,but you might want to take the lock off of the rifle and lubricate the inner working of the lock. this might help smooth the trigger pull out some. had to do this when i first got mine. made a noticeable difference. as for swabbing the bore, something i use is the alcohol wipes that come in the little foil packet. you can buy a box of them for pretty cheap. the great thing is they're easy to pack in the range box or shooting pouch. theyre moist enough for a good swab, but not so wet as to cause any problems with the next load. hope some of this helps.
good luck :thumbsup:

 

[pooreboy]

My Jukar .45 used to be bad about used caps hanging up in the hammer. the spent caps would cushin the blow and not allow the cap to fire..this may not have anything to do with your misfires, but i thought id throw in my two cents worth.. :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

If the skirt on the hammer of that percussion rifle does Not have a "hair-lip" cut in the front of the skirt, file or cut one. It should be triangle in shape, with the wider part at the outside edge of the skirt.

This allows the percussion cap to Rupture forward into that gap( away from the shooter's eyes), so that the cap can no longer hold on to either the nipple or the inside of the skirt.

Problem solved. :shocked2: :hmm: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[russecv58]

i used to have that same problem, even with the notch in the hammer. then i switched to using Remington caps. they're notched on the bottom so they flare out when fired, kinda like a flower opens when blooming. took care of the problem.