engraving with a electric tool

[Capt. Jas.]

Mark Thomas let me use his Lindsay air graver before and I impressed myself. It allows me to do many things I have yet to do with a hammer and chisel. That said, an air graver in an experienced hand does not produce exactly what I see in 18th century work on either side of the pond.
A rotary tool is a totally different animal and some pros may be able to do beautiful work but I think it would not even resemble old gun engraving.
I think though the intent of this thread is about doing wood carving and metal engraving with a 69.00 dremel. I have seen some attempts in this manner on the net. :shocked2:

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

This was done with a rotary tool

:hmm: :wink: :hmm:

:shocked2:

 

[jdkerstetter]

Really Tom? And what tool would that be? An engraver's ball? Nice work, by the way. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Well yes,

The ball vise in fact was the rotary tool involved in this process, otherwise I use the GRS system.

And Thanks.

Just tryin' to :stir: it up a bit.


With all of the heavy attitudes floating around figured a bit of lightness would go along way.

Gonna climb back under my rock now until next year.

:slap:

 

[jdkerstetter]

Good one Tom! Keep it light! Enjoy, J.D.

 

[ebiggs1]

....and no power tool should come near a gun unless wielded by an experienced hand.

You can not replicate good gun engraving or carving with a rotoray tool

.

Rotary and vibrating tools just won't do for and have no place in decorative work.

I suspect it may have been your statements like these that have clouded your answer.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Well, since those weren't the quotes Chuck pulled then I guess we'll have to wait until he chimes in.

If you have something valuable to contribute then I am willing to read it, but as for my statements, I'll stand by them until proven wrong. If they seem curt to you, I offer no apologies....time is valuable and I have things to do.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Excellent point J.D.

Though there are SOME tasks that can be performed by power tools that can't be done with hand tools, they are few and far between. In general, power tools are not a substitute for the function, they are mostly TIME savers, and require skill to use them well, just as hand tools do.

 

[Robby]

A friend of mine had a rifle made for him by an Amish fellow and wanted a deer carved on the butt stock, The gal he hired does do some beautiful work. She uses a rotary tool, not a Dremel, but some very high end tool that I would liken to a dental drill, extremely high RPM's. He was very happy with the results and dropped by to show it off. While he was completely happy with the results I kept my comments to a minimum. I looked at it pretty closely and it would have been obvious to anyone here that while well done the composition was something totally incompatible with any long rifle, but what was more interesting to me was looking for tool marks and how they transitioned from one part of the carving to another as well as their transition to the un-carved areas. My impression was and still is that while she is very talented, it was the wrong tool for the job at hand. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but I believe a person using such a tool as that would have to finish up the job with chisels and scrapers anyway, so whats the point. A talented person can become talented with many different tools, but a talented person would also recognize that there is a correct tool for every job. Seems to me anyway.
Robby

 

[jdkerstetter]

I've seen a lot of work done in this fashion. It used to be quite popular and some guys still make good money doing it. I've seen some very nice work but it is almost always "cut in" and not relief carving as we are familiar with.

Some very fine work can be done with rotary tools but I've seen none that replicates period work done on antique guns, American or European.

Preaching to the choir to many here but the "low" relief carving of period guns is so low that when a hand is run over it, many times, it is as if it's not there.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

....and no power tool should come near a gun unless wielded by an experienced hand.

You can not replicate good gun engraving or carving with a rotoray tool

.

Rotary and vibrating tools just won't do for and have no place in decorative work.

I suspect it may have been your statements like these that have clouded your answer.

Clouded perhaps but each and everyone is beyond the shadow of a doubt correct as any experienced engraver knows, especially the ones who use the air engravers. JD knows what he is talking about.

 

[LRB]

I have to agree. No rotary tool or vibrator will do fine or even acceptable engraving work, unless it has some attachment that would convert it to work like the air or electric power engravers, which are mini jack hammers working from a cam arrangement to drive the graver.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

And it takes experience and an artistic eye. :thumbsup:

 

[ebiggs1]

JD knows what he is talking about.

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't? I don't know the guy but I do know of many world class engravers and to think any of them can not do work on a flintlock rifle is ludicrous. Whether it be by hand or machine the work they produce is amazing and I put no bounds on what they could do. Just because some one chooses to do it by hand does not mean that is the only way.
You guys are free to believe whatever you want but I know what I have seen, so I bow out of this topic.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Two different languages are being spoken here. One with a background knowledge of muzzleloading firearms and their traditional decoration and methods and one with a knowledge of modern artistic elements in other venues.
Sure a world class oil painter can use a rifle stock as his canvas but his methods and product will not resemble work on a traditional muzzleloading firearm. JD is saying the same thing about rotary carving compared to sharp chisels as an example. The work may be impeccable but it will not be representative of chisel carved facet features of a longrifle.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Ernie,

To begin to understand what I'm talking about I highly recommend this book as a start. Mr. Schippers does an excellent job of explaining what we are talking about here. This is just one source it's available from:
http://www.airgraver.com/Engraving-Historic-Firarms-John-Schippers.htm

Next I would recommend that you get out and handle as many original American guns as possible. Pictures don't always reveal what appears obvious in person. Take a magnifying glass along...it might help.

To the OP, if you're still with us, perhaps you should just by a set of letter stamps and carefully go about setting your name into your barrel:
http://www.hittmarking.com/category.aspx?categoryID=223

Heck, you could get one made up with your complete name on it as the 19th century gunbuilders did and you will have it forever.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Woodcraft has a power chisel for woodcarving. basically it is a mini jack hammer.

I ALMOST bought one before I realized that for a beginner, it's better to learn the traditional methods and fundamentals before progressing to the shortcuts. Since rifle building is more about education than finished product, it's more fulfilling to me and my historical understanding of the process and class of firearm to do it that way, even if it takes me 4 times as long.

 

[jdkerstetter]

I think they use the term "power carver" pretty loosely. For rough shaping I guess it would remove the extra wood from a blank like an angry beaver....but so will a chain saw.

I'll stick to the mallet and chisels, though I'd rather see a gun stocker using one of these than angle and die grinders. :shake:

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Col. Batguano]

I got a laminated composite Win 52-D stock a couple of weeks ago from Richards Microfit Stocks. Way too much wood removed from the pistol grip area with an angle grinder. Now I have to use the scrap installing the butt plate to build up the pistol grip area/ I would have been better off just starting with a blank than trying to fix their mistakes.

 

[jdkerstetter]

I'm not familiar with that company but feel your pain. I've picked up more than one aspiring "builder's" unfinished project as I was able to get into them for the cost of the parts.

You are right....sometimes it's easier to start from scratch....and cheaper in the long run. :shake:

Enjoy, J.D.