does any one shoot 150 200 yrds

[Dphar]

on a 8.5 by 11 paper taget 100 yrd is hard too see. I hold 6 oclock at the botom of the page to hit center. I took a 200 yrd shot today just to see if i could hit the paper . i did, it was a foot low with round ball and two feet low with 365grain maxy ball. is there any one that shoots 200 yrds and what kind of sites do you use?

My 54 will keep them well on the paper (standard size target) many in the 6" black at 200 if the wind is not blowing, I use a greased patch and brush, dump and damp patch the bore between shots.
535 rb, 90 gr of FFFG Swiss.
If even a breeze comes up its near hopeless.
I made a tang sight that mounts to the rear tang screw.
Helps me see the rear barrel sight too.
Dan

 

[burgessrudy]

Can anyone cite a confirmed kill past 250 yards during the American Revolution?


I do believe General Washington was very good at Propaganda and Intelligence. I say those so called reports are false or at best one lucky shot. Of course if you are on a hill top and shoot down into a town at a mass of soldiers, you may just hit something, but not what you aimed at.

 

[CWC]

i was just thinking that if a shotgun could do it why not a rifle? seen a 4" group with a savage
A-bolt 3" 7/8 oz 385 grain sabots.

If they were shooting sabots then I'd be willing to bet it was from a rifled bore, not a smoothbore shotgun. Sabots typically have terrible accuracy from smoothbores. I'm also curious if this was with a scope or open sights?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Tell the drivers that they need to SLOW DOWN. They are pushing the deer to fast, and the deer are running past the blockers. No one gets much venison hunting that way. Drivers should always be in sight of each other, so there are no big gaps for the deer to get through and behind their line. 1-2 hunters should be trailing the drivers to shoot any deer that do get through the line. They have to be very careful in picking their safe shooting zones, as do both blockers and drivers, as they close.


That sabot load you are talking about going so far is probably being shot out of a rifled barrel, not a smoothbore. That makes a considerable difference on long range group size.

 

[jdixon]

I can not remember if the source was cited or not but, the accounts of the 250 yrd shot are in the book by David McCullough "1776".

 

[shmrck1]

30 + out school and bin hunting all my life with mabee 5 deer to my name there justs so hard to hit running away.

summit,
A time or two my son has harvested that many
deer in a year with a bow and muzzleloader.Largest
being a 12pt with a bow,1 8pt also with a bow and
one each 6pt and 4pt with a percussion M/L.Ohio
only allows 1 buck a year so on any given year
the rest were does.
I hunt with nothing but muzzleloaders and the
area I hunt a shot over much more than 60 yards
would be irresponsiable.IMHO Terrain just don't
allow for anywhere near a 200yd shot. Even if
it did my 62 year old eyes would not,and a scope
on a traditional B/P rifle is to me assinine.:hmm:
snake=eyes :v

 

[cptleo1]

I put a peep and fiber optic sight on my GPR and increased my effective hunting range from 85 to 125 yds (off a steady rest).

I have never tried it, but, I have no doubt I could lay effecctive fire on a man sized sillouette at 200 yds.

As someone else stated you HAVE TO watch the wind.

I am always amazed how much the wind effects a PRB at any range past 50 yds.

Keep shooting and keep us posted

 

[Robbo]

You really shouldn't even be thinking about shooting at deer at that range. Targets are fine, but wildlife is another matter.

Hi Rebel. You areprobably right about this. But for us, much of our game is shot at 150/200 meters and sometimes well beyond.

How would you recommend we do so with blackpowder guns?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Learn how to hunt. Seriously, if you can't get closer to any game than 150-200 meters, there is something wrong with you. Animals are worried about prey species( Mostly dogs) that are within 50 yards of them. They are not concerned with men standing off at 200 meters. A late friend of mine had a Deer mount in his office of a huge buck he took one year on his family's farm. He crawled on his hands and knees more than 200 yards along a row of corn stubble. ( corn has been cut down by a combine, buthe stubble has not been plowed or disced.) He got into a place about 50 yard from a hedge row where the local deer herd walked by every morning after feeding. He waited for this huge buck to come by and took him with one shot.

Another friend, who is now a doctor, took a huge, 29 point buck on his family farm in Missouri, by going around a hill, and crawling over the top to get within 25 yards of the sleeping deer. He shot it through the neck, and it never moved. He had spotted the deer with binoculars from hundreds of yards away as it was laying down in tall grass, on the hillside, where he could watch the whole valley below. He was an old buck, no longer chasing the does, and he had been hunted for years without success. I saw pictures of the buck, and his rack looked like some kind of Christmas Tree. My congratulations to the doctor was for his willingness to work that hard to get into position for a sure shot to quickly kill that magnificent trophy. That is hunting.

 

[Robbo]

Learn how to hunt. Seriously, if you can't get closer to any game than 150-200 meters, there is something wrong with you.

Respectfully Paul, hunting in Australia is quite a different proposition than in the USA. The last time I went chasing whitetail in knee deep snow in PA (with a flintlock), I was able to stalk to within 25m of my quarry (but as my license was for a buck - and I had stalked a large doe - no kill was made).


The last deer I shot in Australia was, as a matter of fact only a few days ago. A medium sized Fallow buck taken with a 50 cal PRB through the chest at about 160meters - and he dropped like a stone. I would not have been able to stalk much closer than that. The nature of the landscape here is such that stalking is a much more dificult proposition due to lack of cover and much more open bush. The animals are more flighty as well. With deer it helps to hunt just at daylight or dusk when their eyesight is not as effective.

Even when hunting kangaroo, wild pig, goats and the like you are lucky to get close. If they see you, or get a whiff of your scent, they are off, especially when heavily hunted.

What I was actually getting at in my question to Rebel in a round about way is that it has been my experiece that with care and skill, it is perfectly responsible to hunt out at longer ranges. Indeed, for where I hunt, I have little choice.

Cheers

Robbo

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have three rifles that can shoot out to 200 yards and farther very well. I am able to hit milk jugs at 200 yards about every time. My thinking is I get as close as I can. My buck I shot last year was under 100 yards. I have the ability to shoot farther if the animal is hit and I have more opportunity to keep shooting. I don't stop shooting until the animal is down. Wind will play a HUGE role in shooting that far. I have a range finder and my Lyman 57 sml's are all sighted in with the range finder.
This first one is a .458 Green Mountain 1-18 twist TC Renegade. It is a great shooting gun and with a 475gr bullet it will pack a punch.
The front sight on this gun is a Lee Shavers globe sight with a level.

This next one is my go to gun. It is also a Green Mountain TC Renegade. This one has a Stainless 1-28 twist. This gun is sighted in out to 300 yards. I don't recommend shooting game past 100 yards on the first shot. If I have a animal hit I won't back off a long shot.

This last one is the same as the one above but has double triggers. This is my son's rifle. He will be using it on his deer hunt this weekend. It is also sighted in out to 300 yards.

When it comes to varmint hunting and Coyote hunting I will take long shots with them as well. Ron

 

[paulvallandigham]

Robbo: WADR to you as a hunter, and freely admitting I have never been to Australia, much less hunted there, the problems you are describing occur everywhere.

Years ago, when I was very young, and had almost NO experience hunting with a gun, I had three Magazines show up in my mail on the same day. It was in September, and all three magazines had their " Hunting issues " for that month. I picked up the first magazine, the American Rifleman, and read a fine story about a man who hunted Antelope in Wyoming, with a flat shooting, high powered Magnum rifle, and killed a nice antelope at over 300 yard with it. He advised that to hunt Antelope,you need a gun that was absolutely accurate at 300 yards, zeroed at that distance, and you then needed to know how it shot all the way out to 500 yards, if you expected to kill and antelope. THIS, I THOUGHT, WAS A VERY DIFFICULT ANIMAL TO HUNT.

Then I opened my Muzzle Blasts, and lo and behold, there was a story about two men hunting Antelope In Wyoming, using --GOSH!-- flintlocks, with open sights. Two antelope were taken on consecutive days, both trophy class animals. The two men glassed the animals, established a stalk plan, and crawled along cut banks and gullies to get within 70 and 35 yards respectively of the animals they shot. One shot kills for both "lopes.

NOW, THAT SOUNDED LIKE HUNTING TO ME!

Then I opened my Traditional Bowhunting magazine, and lo and behold, some more antelope hunting in Wyoming, this time with primitive " stick " or straight limbed bows. I think the arrows were aluminum, and the broadheads where made of steel, but there were no ropes, and pulleys and wheels, nor some of those funny looking sighting pins, on this bow. The man set up a blind at a watering hole, and waited all day for a antelope buck to come within 25 yards of his blind, and took the shot. One arrow, one antelope.

MADE ME FEEL ASHAMED ABOUT THAT 70 yard shot the one flintlock shooter took at his antelope!

Years later, a good friend of mine booked an Antelope hunt in Wyoming, on some ranch, paid a lot of money, took his high powered wondergun with scope, and shot his antelope- a very respectable set of horns on that mount if I may say so- with one shot. The guide who helped him with his stalk told him, after he filled his tag, some of the derrogatory names local Wyoming ranchers,and cowboys have for the antelopes. "Sage rabbits" was one I still remember. He told Herb that they don't eat them-- don't even consider them fit to eat-- and they shoot them all the time with their .30-30 winchester lever action rifles, sans scope, that they carry in the rack in the back of their pickups. They leave them for the vultures, and coyotes. The ranchers consider the antelope to be competition for the limited water and grass they have for raising cattle, and don't want them on their range.

So, I suspect all this has to do with perspective. If you are not dressed for, nor experienced at crawling through brush and grass to close the distance on an animal, and are not inclined to learn to do so, at your age, well, then you need a scope sight on your musket and a gun zeroed at 200 yards. I would recommend using a conical bullet rather than a round ball to be shooting animals at 200 yards and over, because the ball just doesn't have much gas left to do much of anything after 200 yards, depending on caliber. Also, the trajectory on all Black Powder ammo becomes so steep, that you MUST own and use a range finder before trying those shots.

When men took long shots at enemy soldiers, Or at varmints, as has been mentioned above, it does not matter if you simply wound an enemy soldier, or a varmint. Varmints are pests, and enemy soldiers are the enemy. In fact, wounding an enemy makes the enemy commanders have to decide if they are going to try to use other soldiers to remove the wounded man from the field, or risk morale problems with their troops if they leave him to bleed to death. If he decides to remove the wounded soldier from the field of fire, it takes at least 2, and sometimes 4 soldiers off the battle field with the wounded man, reducing the number of enemy soldiers you have to fight. That is why a wounded or missing in action, or dead soldier is always counted as a " Casualty " by the military, because military commanders are more concerned with how many combat soldiers they have ready and available to send against an enemy.

With varmints, which are pests, and can be destroyed almost any time of year, it is of little concern if an animal is wounded and gets away to bleed to death in a den. That is one less pest.

No one wants to treat game animals that way, however.

 

[Robbo]

Paul, there is merit in some of what you say. In respect of hunting ethics, my own personal approach is to give everything I shoot as clean an exit as I am capable of, regardless of whether it is a pest species or not (as it happens, deer are regarded as pest species here, as are goats and pigs - and sometimes also kangaroos - as they are on my farm).

Only a week or so back, I buggered a fairly easy 150m shot (with a .308) and blew the hindquarters from under a fox instead of the chest shot I went for, and had to spend half a day tracking the poor wretch to make sure I gave it as speedy a dispatch as possible. As it happened, this fox had bled out by the time I found him but it might have been different. It would be unthinkable to me to let the poor beggar crawl around flyblown dying slowly over several days, feral species or not. But I know plenty of blokes that would.

So far as hunting with muzzleloaders goes (or any other rifle for that matter), my general approach is to get as close as possible to the quarry so as to guarantee a clean exit, and never shoot unless there is a very high probability of a kill. Most time I am able to do so but like everyone else, muck up the occasional shot such as the poor old fox I have just mentioned.

When it comes to stalking, it depends a lot on the terrain. As a general rule, I try to get well inside 150m and closer if possible, but the terrain does not always allow for it. And I wish I could say that age plays no part in it - but at 52, lets face it, I cannot crawl as far for a shot as I used to when I did it for a living but having said that, nor am I averse to a bit of discomfort either if it increases the odds of game in the freezer.

In response therefore to the original suggestion that it is perhaps irresponsible to use a muzzleloader except for close in shooting, for me at least, it boils down to being realistic about your own abilities, stalk where possible and ALWAYS go for a clean a kill as possible. In this, I don't think your approach and mine are desparately at odds.

But against that background, I am quite comfortable hunting out to 150+ meters with blackpowder guns, all other things being equal.

Best Wishes

Robbo

 

[paulvallandigham]

My problem arises from the fact that I have seen how far a lead round ball can be blown off target at longer ranges( beginning at 100 yards) with even a slight breeze by local standards. When you have to deal with variable winds over longer ranges, its next to impossible to be sure that your ball will hit where you want it to, even with the best of shooters used to doping wind. Add to that various sized game animals, as targets, and unknown distances, and you magnify the problems many times. A .308 at 200 yards makes a lot more sense than any round ball rifle.

 

[Robbo]

Well Paul, if the number of Posts you have made on this website is a measure of your experience in this area - and I have no reason to think otherwise - I shall defer to your judgement. :surrender:

Best Wishes

Robbo

 

[paulvallandigham]

It doesn't take much " experience" shooting on a windy day from a bench rest to learn all you need to know about the limits of shooting round balls at long distances. Its one thing to read about it in someone's book( as I read in Sam Fadala's book) but it downright depressing to actually see it when you are doing your own shooting!

I never ask someone to take something I say as gospel. Please, put out a paper target at some distance, and do some of your own test shooting. Pick a calm day to find out your gun's best accuracy, and then purposely take it out on a windy, storm's-comin', day, and shoot it at the same distance.

Take a tip from our American Indians on how to crawl through tall grass or weeds, and not be seen by the game: take a tuft of grass with you and hold it with your off -hand in front of your face and head to break up your outline as you crawl on your belly. Stop whenever the animal's head comes up. Keep an eye on his tail. The tail usually always twitches just before they lift their heads. That is when you stop moving.

Remember that prey species feel through their feet. so don't make large " clumpy " noises with your boots or feet. or knees when crawling. Try to glide smoothly through the grass, so as to make no noise. Pretend that you are crawling across the skin on a kettle drum.

In hunting American Pronghorn Antelope, Indians, and many modern hunters have taken advantage of their inquisitive nature, and will put a fine silk or rayon scarf on a stick or ramrod, stick it up in the air on one rise, and then crawl or travel around to get to another rise down wind and to the side and in between the antelope and the "flag". Antelope have been known to walk in one half a mile (880 yards) to check out such a flag, and tend to ignore everything else around.

Sometimes, the best way to stalk an animal in open areas, is to find a way to make that animal come to you. Always remember you are in his back yard. He may not know one blade of grass from another, but the animal will certainly know when something is new in his territory.

 

[BrownBear]

You know, the easy answer is to go out and try it yourself on paper targets to learn your own limitations and the gun's limitations in a variety of conditions including not only wind, but rain and snow. Shoot from field positions and not from a benchrest. No one else's answer is going to work for you.

I've tinkered a bunch at longer range with muzzleloaders, just because I grew up in the desert and did a whole bunch of long range shooting with centerfire rifles- targets, varmints and big game. I know my limits with those tools and am pretty confident within my personal range limits.

After reading accounts of colonial snipers shooting British officers at longer ranges, of course I wanted to see what I could do with my own muzzeloaders. At 200 yards with no wind, very good sights and a benchrest, I can stack two white 5-gallon buckets, aim for the top of the top one, and hit the bottom one as often as half the time. Good enough for combat accuracy from behind a tree, and certainly good enough when shooting into a line with more red coats on either side of the officer. I'd know I was gonna hit something just by aiming at heads. Wouldn't care if I wounded or not. In fact it would have better psycho effect if I wounded, I bet, just so the guy could lay there screamin about those unfair, cheatin colonials hiding behind the trees.

But 200 yards for game? Nodamway.

I once head shot a running coyote with an open sighted Ruger Mini-14 at 9/10 of a mile, as measured with the odometer of our jeep. Now understand, I missed him when he was standing still at about 300, and kept holding higher and further ahead as he lit out. I was pretty near the bottom of a 30-round clip when he flipped end over end. Sure it was his bad luck to run under the bullet and had nothing to do with my marksmanship or the gun I was using. But one of the hands sitting and watching from the jeep was dead serious when he said "Dang, I gotta get me one of them Rugers!"

Back to muzzleloaders, we had a bad deerkill last winter, and pickins have been skinny. So I started practicing with my GPR 54 at 100 yards just to see what it would do at longer than usual ranges with my normal sight-in. Just cuzz of my eyes I use a very good "long range" sight setup- Lyman receiver sight and fiberoptic front.

I can manage 3-4" groups from a benchrest as well as across my knees at 100 yards. Certainly "good enough" for deer at that range.

On opening day of our muzzleloader season my huntin pard (Smokehouseman) saw a nice little buck standing broadside on the edge of a muskeg and generously offered me the shot. The buck wasn't going anywhere, so I lasered him at 94 yards, took my time, and got a good rest and good sight picture in the good light and uncorked.

Missed him cleaner than clean. Realized I'd rookied out and failed to allow for the fact that he was steeply downhill.

The buck calmly turned to give me a look at his other side while I flapped my arms and cussed through a reload. He watched and waited till I was pulling the ramrod out of the bore and stepped back out of sight into the screen of spruce behind him.

I don't know if there's a moral to the story other than it's better to make your misses without witnesses.

But it does point out that even when you have everything going for you, shots at longer ranges require more of you, and small mistakes mean more than they do at closer range. If I missed him completely, I could just as well have wounded and lost him.

The only reason I considered the shot in the first place, was that it was dead calm. I've shot my muzzleloader and a lot of other guns enough in breezes at 50, 100 and beyond to know that's a bad deal with muzzleloaders, cuzz no matter how you dope the wind where you're standing, it's going to be two or three different things between you and what you're shooting at.

 

[Robbo]

Thanks for your advice Paul. Although I have been hunting successfully for over 40 years and feel I can work the terrain as well as the next man (and better than some), I would never claim to know it all. There is always more to learn. Can't say I take much anyone else says as Gospel though and I feel quite comfortable to hunt with M/L's at 150 metres or so, although closer is always better.

As for learning from American Indians, that's good advice. Especially as my wife, who grew up in the Appalachians, is part Lakota Sioux. I learn from her on a daily basis :grin:

 

[44-henry]

I agree that with a roundball you should, in most instances, limit your shots to under 100 yards. Most of the deer that I have shot with roundball have been within this mark, one was about 110 yard which was later confirmed with a rangefinder.

That being said there are plenty of muzzleloaders capable of clean kills out to 200 yards if the user is capable with them. I've seen deer harvested with conical at 150 yards plus and they looked like they had been struck by lightening when they went down so there is plenty of power out there available.

I think some of you might be applying traits that are common with your own areas to those of other areas, while I suppose out East close shots may be the norm, out here on the plains they are the exception and not the rule. Where I grew up close shots generally were running shots and the nice standing still shots were apt to be 200 yards plus when you could find them. Different hunting conditions call for different tactics and guns. Most important is the user is aware of the capabilities of themselves and the guns they hunt with and stay within those confines.

 

[BrownBear]

Agreed. If I was still hunting the plains and desert, you'd probably catch me using something like a Whitworth and long conicals. If I was hunting back east or even the midwestern brushy canyons, I'd probably be using a smoothy and taking my shots inside 50. As a matter of fact I'm already striving for shots inside 50, so I could be just as well using a smoothie today rather than a rifle.

Here we have such a mix of open and broken country that I get to pick and choose, but even in the open country there's enough terrain relief and brush to usually allow a stalk closer. I love that stuff, so loading with PRBs forces me to go ahead and do it, even when conditions are tough.

However, we also have large brown critters lurking with pointy things they've been known to use. My hunting pard and others prefer to use conicals for extra oomph in case of a bad situation with them, even if they're still holding their shots at game inside 100 yards.

Kinda like choosing a pickup to drive. You'll be known for what you pick, but drivers of other brands are stupid to think you should switch brands just because they prefer something else.