Do maxis, conicals, ball-ets move in the bore

[Ken Rummer]

I had a Ball-et fall out the end of the barrel on my TC PA Hunter while being carried. Since a bullet off the powder charge could act like a bore obstruction, this led me to think these lubricated bullets could be less safe than either a PRB or a bullet in a sabot.

Do maxi/conical hunters use the ramrod to verify that the bullet is seated on the powder charge from time to time during a hunt?

 

[gmww]

It depends. If I have a conical that is loose fitting, I'll wrap it in plumbers teflon tape to give it a snug fit.

 

[gjkershul]

They can move.
Preparing for this past hunting season I checked on conical movement in two of my rifles that I would be transporting to the hunt site on an ATV.
The first was an old investarms .50 Hawken clone that has been good medicine for Elk. After bounching for about 3 miles through the sage brush on an ATV loaded with the.50 385 Hornady GP bullet I found that the bullet had moved up in the bore about 6 inches. That took the investarms off the dance card for hunts starting on the ATV.
I did the same test with my Lyman .54 GP HUNTER using the Hornady 425 GP and found that it did not move. A tighter bore on the Lyman GP.
Minie bullets moved enough in both so they were not acceptable at all.
After this experience it is now my practice to check the seating of conicals after any vigorous movement of the rifle-by vehicle, animal, or just hard walking in the mountains- before priming at the hunt site.

 

[gbsclohn]

I tend to check even on a PRB-not ever had one move but it makes me feel better knowing where it is at :thumbsup:

 

[Vaino]

Went to a PRB rifle because the Buffalo Bullets came off the powder in a clean bbl. Once a conical is pushed down the bore, there's no pressure on the conical....it's size on size w/ the bore and can move. Our elk hunt "loaner rifle" still uses Buffalo Bullets but the user is warned that periodically during the day's hunt he must check w/ the RR. On intial loading, an air pressure is created when the conical is being seated and this must dissapate before the conical will "stay home" . Did some testing by lightly tapping the bbl on a 2x4 w/ the rifle in a vertical position and the Buffalo Bullets always moved. Perhaps a light cardboard, tight fitting wad over the conical would solve this problem.....Fred

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I use 370 grain T/C Maxi-Balls in my Lyman Trade Rifle all of the time. Never had one move on me! I would think that after you got off of the ATV "S#$%-Shaker" you would check your equipment and use a ramrod no matter what projectile was down the bore.

I guess it depends on how tight a fit it is to begin with, as other members have said.

Dave

 

[Mad Professor]

Yes they can move. I use a lube thick enough to hold them in place (NL 1000 is fine in winter) or a paper patch.

 

[paulvallandigham]

By now, you have read enough answers here to know that SOME conicals will move in SOME guns!

If you check with suppliers, like Track of the Wolf, Cains, etc.( see the links section at the top of the index page to this forum) they sell Over Shot cards in most calibers and gauges. You can buy these for your particular gun.They will hold the bullet on the powder, yet not affect the accuracy of the bullet when the gun is fired.

The larger the caliber, the more likely that a bullet of any weight will move. It has to do with the degree of arc, and coefficient of friction of the bullet to the bore, but just leave it at a general understanding that the heavier slugs in larger calibers can move forward easier.

If you use some kind of cloth patch already, these can also be used as an Over bullet wad, to hold the bullet in place. But, you usually have to use a couple, and they have to be greased( so the fabric doesn't dry, as it would if they were damp with any water or alcohol based solution).( IMHO, the OS cards are less hassle.)

In the old days chunks of hornet's nesting were used to hold both bullets, and shot loads in smoothbore barrels, which are more likely to allow movement of any bullet, than a rifled barrel will. So, hornet's nest can also be used to hold your bullet in place.

If you err on the side of caution, by checking the postion of the ball after any movement of the gun, as described above, you are not going to have problems. If a bullet were to " fall out the muzzle", the worse thing that happens is that you have to dump any powder left in the barrel out, and then RELOAD the gun.

Some conicals are " stepped", they have a driving band at the front of the bullet that is larger than the bore(land to land) diameter of a rifle. When you load that kind of conical, the bottom of the bullet fits snuggly to the bore, but that last band requires a sharp "whack" of your hand on the short starter to get it seated in the rifling. The typical hollow base on these conicals will open up the back of the bullet when fired to provide a gas seal, of sorts, while that drive band keeps the bullet centered in the barrel. It also provides enough friction that the bullet is not likely to move during movement of the gun to, and in, the field.

So, choose your conicals wisely. Some really ARE BETTER than others.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I always check for this, but so far have never had a Hornady great plains bullet move in either my 50 or 54 cal TC Hawken rifles.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

That was a serious problem for cavalry and dragoons who carried the carbine muzzle down on horseback. It was much commented upon by officers of the time who were especially exasperated with the smoothbore musketoon with which it seemed no amount of wadding over the ball would keep it secure. They greatly praised the Hall's breechloader in that the ball being larger than the bore it could not gravitate forward. However, if the powder charge did not entirely fill the chamber, the powder would gravitate forward enough to caused misfires. Holster pistols suffered the same problem, after a short dash a cavalryman might find his loads in the bottom of the holster. I don't doubt that shotguns carried on horseback would also suffer the same result.

 

[Idaho Ron]

The top band on a 50 cal Hornady GP bullet is .511 I have never had on even try to back off in my Green Mountain barrels. Ron

 

[tg]

My dad gave up on connicals years ago when he saw the end of a maxi sticking out of the end of his barrel when he stopped to tie his bootlace,

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

Yes, they can move. I have never had one move forward more than a little, but I got in the habit of carrying my rifle level or muzzle up, and checked with the ramrod from time to time while hunting. This was with T/C Maxi Balls.

 

[Moloch]

I am shooting a CW replika in .69, (1842) I always give the minié conicals two strong racks with the rod to expand them a bit. (.685 minie, .689 bore) Once I pulled a loaded concial out it had deep marks of the rifling and it was extremely hard to pull, I needed help from my friend to pull the rod, I had to hold the rifle, he pulled. :shocked2:

Give the concials one, two strokes with the rod and they will expand quiet a lot. They will not fall out of the barrel. It will change th powder burning rate a bit, so you have to do it every shot or the POI will change.

 

[cowpoke1955]

I took my .54 T/C Hawken out a few days during muzzle loading season, loaded with Lee 380 grain REAL. I never had a problem with the REAL moving, but I checked it every so often just to be safe. The possibility is always there and that is one way to ruin your day. Most of the time I just stick with a patched round ball.

 

[BrownBear]

Somewhat related, I was always warned to reseat the load in the second barrel on my double 12 when I fired only one barrel. I always did it, but never found that the charge had moved. Easy to see where it could happen after several firings of a single load, though. I've never had a REAL or Great Plains bullet move, but there's always a first time. If it happened I'd probably go the teflon tape route.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Somewhat related, I was always warned to reseat the load in the second barrel on my double 12 when I fired only one barrel. I always did it, but never found that the charge had moved. Easy to see where it could happen after several firings of a single load, though. I've never had a REAL or Great Plains bullet move, but there's always a first time. If it happened I'd probably go the teflon tape route.

One of the problems I see with the teflon tape is the tape might negatively affect accuracy due to it being on there during flight. I know when Paper patching a guy does NOT want the paper to stay on. Ron

 

[BrownBear]

Good point. I'll keep that in mind if the problem surfaces. Someone else suggested giving the ramrod a couple of good whacks to expand the bullet slightly. That sits better with me.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I haven't had that issue arise with Lee REAL slugs in my .50 - I checked it a few times w/my ramrod. this was just carrying the rifle afoot for a few miles. IMO it would take some real 'jarring' to do this so maybe a good idea to check the slugs if you carried the rifle on an ATV or some such.

 

[jtmattison]

I have one barrel I shoot conicals out of. It's a Lyman GPH. I shoot several different conicals, all home cast, including Maxi-balls, Plains Bullets, and REAL's.

I have experimented with them all by loading and then tapping the muzzle on my carpeted garage floor to see if the bullet will shift off the powder charge. None of them shifted. BTW, I didn't have powder in the bore. I use oatmeal as a substitute since I was in my garage and performing a potentially dangerous experiment.

Just to be safe, in the field, I carry with my muzzle angled upwards to prevent shift.

HD