deerstalker vs. great plains hunter

[hanshi]

I think it's the barrel that makes the ball accurate not the size of the ball. The twist,charge,patch,lube,groove depths,number of grooves and on and on would all have a influence on accuracy and consistancy. There are barrels of all kinds and calibers.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[ebiggs1]

It also depends on how ya spin the facts :grin:

Touche', my friend. :bow:

 

[Mad Professor]

What sort of patch you using with a .350 ball? :hmm:

And is this a .50 or .54? :haha:

 

[Zonie]

I'm betting it should have said .530 instead of .350.

Actually, this is good.

Everyone screws up once a year and now that I made that mis-type, my one mistake is out of the way.

Hooray! :grin:

 

[sawandhammer]

this post as taken on a life of its own. i opened up my new .50cal deerstalker today. so the decision has already been made. but, still fun to read and learn. my only problem is i can't seem to get the damn pin in to hold the barrel. spoke to "joe" at lyman, he suggested loosening the screw a little to allow the barrel to seat further down. i still can't get it in properly. i'll get him on the phone in the morning..... i just want to shoot it... a nice looking little gun.

 

[rodwha]

That's how mine is too. I read the paper thingy that came with it. SWMBO tells me they are called a manual. Anyway, in it it states that you may need to file the escutcheon plates.

I boogered up my wedge forcing it in and pulling it back out before I bought a brass punch for that. Ooops. Now I need some touch up bluing.

I'm afraid that it will effect the accuracy. It's still not right.

 

[sawandhammer]

yeah it says in the box that it was inspected. i wonder how loosely they use the term "inspected". maybe i just need to send it back... i don't want to booger mine up too.

 

[rodwha]

I just boogered the wedge. I considered ordering a new one just because I prefer good condition, but quite frankly this will be a stalking rifle. It's likely to get scratched up and whatnot.

It may be cheaper to get a new one and new escutcheons than to get a descent bluing compound.

 

[William O.]

my only problem is i can't seem to get the damn pin in to hold the barrel. spoke to "joe" at lyman, he suggested loosening the screw a little to allow the barrel to seat further down. i still can't get it in properly. i'll get him on the phone in the morning..... i just want to shoot it... a nice looking little gun.

I had the same problem with one of my Lymans too. Loosen up the screw(s) on the tang before hooking the barrel into it, then while it's still loose insert the barrel and see if the wedge key to go in. If so then just tighten up the screws again and you're good to go.

 

[Zonie]

Exchanging your gun would solve nothing.

Almost all of the Lyman guns come with this "problem" and several methods of "fixing" it have been used.

You already heard about filing the escutchen plate slots. You need a very small flat file to do this and you want to remove metal from the top (barrel side) of both slots.

Another thing that has been done is to make a very slight bend in the barrel wedge(s) about half way between the end and the head.
This was done on my GPR by whoever owned it before I bought it.

If this method is used, the wedge(s) will have to be put in with the correct side up.
That's no biggie though. If the wedge is put in 'upside down' it will let you know by interfering with the wood on the other side of the barrel underlug.

If loosening the tang screw before installing the barrel allows the wedge to be inserted, don't forget to tighten the screw when your done.

You will also have to loosen the screw each time you want to remove the barrel but, here again, that's no biggie.

You might want to make sure your lock screw is loosened.
If it is tight it will sometimes cause the barrel to bind which will keep the barrel from dropping fully into the barrel channel in the stock.

Have fun with your new gun. I know you think its off to a rocky start but soon you will be giving it praises.

 

[sawandhammer]

thanks zonie,
it seems like you gave me 3 remedies:
1) file the plate a little at a time.
2) loosen the screws to insert, then tighten. which will need to be repeated everytime the barrel is removed.
3) bend the plug a little bit.
*** which do you think will be the best method to attempt for a "newbe" like me????
thanks again for your advice and knowledge....

 

[rodwha]

I'm far from experienced, so take my opinion with the proper grains of seasoning, but it seems filing the escutcheon plates are the best bet, although you'll need to reblue them.

By messing with the screws you could eventually booger up the heads or forget to tighten them, which could end up in the grass somewhere or get boogered by recoil.

And bending the wedge may be difficult to get just the bend you need.

I also wonder if loosening the screws enough to allow the wedge to slide through and then tightening the screws back down wouldn't torque the barrel and effect the accuracy. Thoughts from you that understand such things?

 

[Zonie]

Given a choice I'd start with the easiest one first so the order would be #2, #1, #3.

 

[rodwha]

Would loosening the screws so it'll fit in there, and then tightening them back up not put pressure on the barrel and potentially change it's accuracy?

As I don't have proper screwdrivers yet I'd be slow on using that trick, but I'd like to give it a try and see if it'll work for me.

 

[sawandhammer]

zonie,
well, i was not too thrilled with the lady at lyman who told me to just wiggle it and use common sense to get the wedge in....i asked her if i could speak to joe who seems to be the only one who can answer the technical questions. she said he was busy and then she told me to take it to a local gunsmith who would be happy to see a potential customer walk in. i explained to her i have never shot or owned a blackpowder rifle before, but that it didn't seem right to me that i should have to pay someone to potentionally fix my brand new rifle. especially since this seems like a very common occurrence with lyman rifles. i told her the common sense she was referring to is telling me to send this rifle back. then she says let me go get joe and have him hold your hand and walk you through putting the wedge in. i know that i am rambling but i was a little annoyed to say the least. however, i did use the back end of a screwdriver as a hammer and pushed it through. joe (who has been nothing short of great with helping me and answering my questions) told me that the wedge being tight like that is exactly what i want. my only problem with that is getting it back out. i had to use a flathead screwdriver and i can see if i continue the wedge is going to get pretty marred up. i'm thinking of looking for some wood or plastic so i don't beat the heck out of the wedge.
p.s. i really do like the rifle it is very sharp looking and i can't wait to shoot it.

 

[cynthialee]

get a rubber mallet and a wood dowel and use them to remove the wedge
No need to mar up your nice new rifle.

 

[will5a1]

FWIW - I like having the wedges/keys tight, as I lost a loose one while hunting. You might consider picking up a set of brass drifts & punches, our local Sears Hardware sold a nice small set and also carried a screwdriver bit set that had the hollow ground bits in it. Enjoy your rifle.

 

[necchi]

OK, Let's fix it.
Some language first.

The wedge; Key
The holes in the stock the Key fit's through; Key slots
Part of the barrel the Key fit's through; Underlug
Part of the barrel that fit's in the stock at the back; Breech Hook
Part of the stock the Breech Hook fit's in; Tang

Remove the barrel. Observe the Key slots and how light looks when you look through them as they're lined up. Make sure the Key fit's freely through the slots without the barrel.
Replace the barrel, assuring proper fit of the Hook to the Tang. The barrel should drop down in to the barrel channel without (or very little) resistance. If you have to press the barrel down with anymore than light pressure we have a fitting issue at the Tang.

Now with the barrel in place look through the Key Slots again. Can you see the Underlug blocking any light as opposed to haveing the barrel out?

The typical answer is Yes. The underlug is blocking part of the Key Slots on the bottom.
Now that Underlug is actually kinda soft. The gun owner can adjust it too his likeing. If it is indeed blocking the slot, you can put your blade tip screw driver in the Under lug and twist. The twist will open the gap in the underlug so the Key fit's though, if you go too far you can tap it with a hammer to close it.
You can use the screw driver like a punch too and tap the end so it opens the Underlug.

If you have a Hook/Tang fitting issue come`on back and we'll work on that too.

 

[sawandhammer]

The barrel should drop down in to the barrel channel without (or very little) resistance. If you have to press the barrel down with anymore than light pressure we have a fitting issue at the Tang.



If you have a Hook/Tang fitting issue come`on back and we'll work on that too.[/quote]



thanks necchie,
i have to put a pretty good squeeze on the barrel to get it low enough to even attempt to put the wedge in. so i guess that is the main problem. but, i wonder if fixing this issue will allow the wedge to fall out of place??? maybe i will just leave it the way it is. since i have not shot it yet, maybe the barrel will seat better after some good old fun shooting time... but again, i have never done this before so this is all a learning experience. i do want to thankyou and everyone else. you guy's amount of knowledge is overwhelming. i sure have learned alot from this forum. finding the "muzzleloading forum" was certainly a great FIND!!!

 

[sawandhammer]

cynthialee and wil5a1 seem to think. in my opinion, to go ahead and leave it tight. just use the proper tools to remove the wedge pin... maybe i have the wrong interpretation. but, it seems that way to me. i need to just put some degreaser or something down the barrel and brush the heck out of it to get all that crud out so i can play with my new toy. the instructions said to soak barrel overnight with wd40 then scrub in the morning. joe at lyman told me to use a strong degreaser. so there is a little confusion there as well. sooner or later i will learn all these tricks and be a seasoned muzzleloader. i certainly have become a proud member of the "darkside" and haven't even shot my first shot yet........