Conicals for Kibler SMR

[wiscoaster]

I'd like to try shooting my Kibler .45 cal SMR with conical balls/bullets. Recommendations on what I should look for would be appreciated. TIA.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

Something like the Hornady PA conical would be worth a try with the round ball twist. The old Buffalo Ballet worked well with slow twist rifling, but I haven't seen those in ages. Look for something that isn't much longer than it is around. Be curious to see how you do as I should have one of these around the first of the year.

 

[stikshooter]

I'd like to try shooting my Kibler .45 cal SMR with conical balls/bullets. Recommendations on what I should look for would be appreciated. TIA.

Seeing how you bought a RB shooter , WHY? I got the Woods runner and at the bench the next 3 guys gripe their getting burned .Hunting is one thing but the twist is not the greatest but I guess you gotta try !

 

[wiscoaster]

Seeing how you bought a RB shooter , WHY?

Why? Curiosity. Killed the cat, I suppose.

But that's me. I do things just to see.

Seeing as how it's a rifled barrel, I see no reason why not.

 

[IanH]

It will barely stabilize a round ball at 1800 fps, good luck.

 

[wiscoaster]

.... Look for something that isn't much longer than it is around....

Thanks. Flat base or expanding recessed base like a Minie? Lube grooves or not?

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

Thanks. Flat base or expanding recessed base like a Minie? Lube grooves or not?

The following is IMO based experience, others mileage will vary and I'm sure they'll say so.
Definitely want a lube groove of some sort unless you want to go through the hassle of paper patching, or you can get the needed lube with felt wads. Stuff like this is easier to find in the larger calibers as premade, especially .50. If you cast your own that opens things up, the lowest weight LEE REAL bullets can sometimes do well in slow twist barrels and are molds are cheap. Flat or hollow both depends on what you can find and what your rifle likes, even a flat base projectile will obdurate with black powder to engage the rifling. This will get TLDR quick.

People roll their eyes and throw tantrums that make 2 year olds envious when one mentions Idaho Lewis but anyone wanting to experiment with conicals can get a good start with his YouTube content. Just have to take what he shows and change the principles to what you're trying to accomplish.

 

[longcruise]

What is the twist on that barrel?

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

What is the twist on that barrel?

It doesn't say on their site anymore but it's a round ball twist, 1 in 66 I think. Any conical for it will need to be on the short side.

Worse unless it's been changed. Found it on Kibler.net. the .45 has a 1/70 so probably not a good candidate for conical experiments. However, one never knows. Interesting though. The three smaller calibers are all listed as 1/48. I may have to do some experimenting with that .32 I have coming.

 

[nchawkeye]

Try it if you like but remember, true round ball barrels are cut to .015-.018 deep, vs button rifling which is .006-.008 deep, the conical base flares to engage the rifling...This is why we typically use patches .015-.020 deep on round balls...So, in addition to the rifling be slower for round balls, the rifling is deeper for patches...

Round balls kill just fine, just use the appropriate caliber for the game being pursued...

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

To have any chance of success you will most likely have to use some stout powder charges. What works for a PRB often won't obdurate a conical into the rifling and as IanH pointed out it will need as much velocity as can be safely gained to stabilize.

 

[#blackpowderbill]

Hornady PA conicals, I haven't seen any in stock for many years.
I use to sell several dozen boxes per year.
As far as buffalo conicals go. You'd have to check GunBroker one of those sites since the buffalo's have been out of business for probably 15 years.

LEE has several mould offerings..

 

[gemmer]

I'd like to try shooting my Kibler .45 cal SMR with conical balls/bullets. Recommendations on what I should look for would be appreciated. TIA.

Why?

 

[reddogge]

Where can you buy hollow base .45 bullets that will fit down your barrel? All I see are .455 diameter bullets for sale and they won't fit.

 

[wiscoaster]

Why?

See post #4.

 

[wiscoaster]

Some conclusions I'm gaining from the discussion:
1) Lighter is better due to slow twist.
2) Lube grooves is better than paper patched.
3) Heavier load may be required.
Please correct me if I misunderstood.

I shoot .445 round balls with a 0.015 patch, and that combo is plenty tight. I should be looking for .45 cal conicals with a diameter around .450?

 

[reddogge]

Where can you buy hollow base .45 bullets that will fit down your barrel? All I see are .455 diameter bullets for sale and they won't fit.

As mentioned above, the conicals I see on the web come in .455 so they get shaved down loading into a pistol cylinder. My question stands, where are you going to find .450 conicals?

 

[longcruise]

1) Lighter is better due to slow twist.

Sort of, it's more about the relationship of diameter, length and twist rate.

Heavier load may be required.

Maybe, but stability is also effected by atmospheric effects. Heavier charges resulting in higher RPM might help but it's not a reliable solution to inadequate twist rate

I should be looking for .45 cal conicals with a diameter around .450?

That could turn out to be a very frustrating turd hunt. A good fit is important but the suitability of the projectile to the caliber and twist rate is more important. If the "correct" bullet is not of the appropriate diameter then sizing the bullet gives a broader selection. One can go so far as saying that ordering a mold for the correct bullet configuration fits into the description of sizing.

There is a broad range of tolerance of any given bullet to twist rate. Meaning that twist rate can be faster than necessary up to a certain point and all will be well but when twist is not adequate stability will be abruptly gone and the bullet will be flying sideways.

Here is a good explanation of the subject with probably more technical information than you want but it's a very interesting read that you may or may not want to wade all the way through.

http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/index.htm

 

[longcruise]

My question stands, where are you going to find .450 conicals?

Molds designed for the 45 LC and 45 ACP are good candidates. I have used Lee 452 200 grain wadcutters in my tc 45 (1:48 twist). It did require sizing in a 451 push through sizer.

 

[Garbear34]

It doesn't say on their site anymore but it's a round ball twist, 1 in 66 I think. Any conical for it will need to be on the short side.

Worse unless it's been changed. Found it on Kibler.net. the .45 has a 1/70 so probably not a good candidate for conical experiments. However, one never knows. Interesting though. The three smaller calibers are all listed as 1/48. I may have to do some experimenting with that .32 I have coming.

I thought about trying the tc maxi in my .32 just to see.