Confederate Indians

[Marc Adamchek]

I'm reading 'Three Years With Quantrill", the memoirs of his scout John McCorkle. I came across a fleeting reference to "Confederate Indians", e.g. Col. D. N. McIntosh and his Creek troops and Brig Gens Douglas Cooper and Stand Watie's Cherokee troops.

Can anyone recommend a book(s) about this subject?

 

[steve free]

There is a book about the Thomas Legion, that was made up of a lot of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, in the Smoky Mountains. I'm not sure about the title, but a quick search of the Thomas Legion, should give you plenty of info.

 

[Bill Austin]

There is a novel titled"Rifles For Watie" written in 1957 by Harold Keith. He supposedly interviewed quite a few civil war veterns doing research for the book.

 

[ndnboy]

A newer book that is very well researched and written is When the Wolf Came by Mary Jane Ward.

 

[necchi]

Here's a little bit; http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields/pearidge/pea-ridge-history-articles/cherokeespearidgehess.html

 

[crockett]

Interesting subject, I always thought that almost all native peoples in the Confederate cause were from Oklahoma.
Which brings up an interesting subject. I always thought the Confederacy consisted of the thirteen States and nothing more but recently I found out that the southern half of New Mexico and Arizona were Confederate territories. What was the status of Oklahoma? It seems that almost everyone from Oklahoma that fought in the war was on the Confederate side.
BTW- that Quantril book is a good read IMHO.

 

[ndnboy]

hey crockett,at the time Oklahoma was indian territory the tribes pretty much split but probably a little more to the johhnies,the union faction fled the territory north to Kansas joining up with the white union troops and came back down and eventually recaptured the territory. Probably the biggest battle of the war was the battle of honeysprings Nov.1863 I believe. Researched this a little bit,my ggg grandpa was with the 1st Seminole Mounted Volunteers CSA.

 

[crockett]

I never really thought about it before but I lot of the tribes were relocated peoples from the Southeast, Creeks, Seminoles, Cherokees, etc. I wonder if that had a role in what side they preferred?

 

[satx78247]

After the jayhawkers & "US Volunteer Cavalry" out of KS started murdering women & children in IT, virtually all the NA were partisans of the CSA.

"The blow that killed father" was the CRUCIFIXION of 14 women at a crossroads near the IT/KS line in NOV61 and the torture/murder/dismemberment of a 12YO Osage boy named Spotted Cat by DYs out of Lawrenceville. = His head was "paraded through the city on a pole", according to the local paper in Olathe, KS.

Had it not been for such atrocities, the vast majority of NA in IT/KS/MO/AR might well have remained neutral in TWBTS. ====> Committing war crimes virtually always backfires on the side that commits those crimes.

yours, satx

 

[Grumpa]

"The blow that killed father" was the CRUCIFIXION of 14 women at a crossroads near the IT/KS line in NOV61 and the torture/murder/dismemberment of a 12YO Osage boy named Spotted Cat by DYs out of Lawrenceville.

That is Heavy stuff. I wasn't able to locate any account of this on the internet. I am not doubting what you say, just wanting to find out more about it.

I recall reading that some tribes kept black slaves, which could also be a factor in their siding with the Confederacy.

 

[satx78247]

There's LOTS of things that are NOT on the "worldwidewierd" for a whole variety of purposes, including "covering up for" the DY atrocities committed during TWBTS. = You, for example, won't find on the Internet that the DYs at Point Lookout DEATH CAMP at Point Lookout, MD murdered at least 15,000 helpless POWs either but the US Army's POW Center states that it's FACT.
(FOUR of those "mysteriously disappeared" CSA soldier boys were members of our family & their names are on the monument to the murdered POWs.)

IF you were a CSA service-member & became "a guest of the DYs" AND you were Asian, Black, "Foreign-born", Hispanic, Jewish, Native American and/or Roman Catholic, your chances of surviving "captivity" were near ZERO.= To quote the Commander of PLPOWC, "They just were not worth feeding."

NOTE: The term, "Concentration Camp" was first used by a MAJ of the Fourth King's Hussars (out of Prussia), who was a "foreign military observer" with the Union Army. The Major's official report states, "This Concentration Camp is obviously intended to cause intentional death to captives of the Army, by means of denial of food, shelter and necessary medical care. Death oft-times death comes to the prisoners by bayonet, bullet, beatings and drowning." and later, "Should this war long continue, none of the inmates will likely survive their confinement".

Some things that you can look up with a search engine are: PORTALS TO HELL, MANGAS COLORADOS, THE UNCIVIL WAR, TO DIE IN CHICAGO, BURY MY HEART AT WOUNDED KNEE, AUSCHWITZ IN MARYLAND, RED OVER BLACK, SAMUEL MUDD & BLACKS IN BLUE AND GRAY.
(Using those "terms"/titles to search "the www" will quickly reveal a great deal of information that is "unsuitable for the pre-bedtime entertainment of children" & "may cause sleeplessness and nightmares".)

just my OPINIONS, satx

 

[crockett]

Satx- thanks for all your input. I've spent a lot of time trying to get at all the events often not written about.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Ditto that, satx. One thing: I've managed to decipher all your abbreviations but I still can't get one; the DY's.

What, please, are DY's?

EDIT: Could it possibly mean Damn Yankees?

 

[Rnegelein]

When the Wolf Came is a good general work to begin to understand the War here in the Territory. The Chronicles of Oklahoma have several articles on the different aspects of the war at: http://search.library.okstate.edu/...TF-8&ie=UTF-8&client=EPC&proxystylesheet=EPC. There were also large portions of the Cherokee,Creek, Seminole, and Osages that fought for the Union. While the Choctaws and Chickasaws under the influence of their former government agent Douglas Cooper (eventually their Confederate General)almost completely sided with the Confederacy. The Cherokee Nation was the bloodiest area per capita, with guerrillas from both sides running rampant and killing the innocent. The Indian pioneer papers at: http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/pioneer/ have numerous first hand accounts of the war from both sides.

 

[PaulN/KS]

I am currently reading "The Civil War in the American West" by Alvin M. Joesephy, Jr. .
It mentions the Confederate and Union Indians and battles where they participated. I'm on chapter 10 now which starts at Pea Ridge and is getting into the details of how the various tribes came to fighting for, and against, the Confederates.

 

[MacRob46]

There is a book about the Thomas Legion, that was made up of a lot of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, in the Smoky Mountains. I'm not sure about the title, but a quick search of the Thomas Legion, should give you plenty of info.

There are several books on William Holland Thomas and Thomas' Legion which was the force he commanded. A legion, of course, consists of infantry, cavalry and artillery. Thomas' command was mixed as far as members. There were mountaineers as well as Cherokee in its ranks. There are several books out that have references to Thomas' Legion. One is Bushwhackers: The Civil War in North Carolina by William R. Trotter. Another is The Heart of Confederate Appalachia - Western North Carolina in the Civil War by John Inscoe and Gordon McKinney. For a book devoted to Thomas' Legion try Storm in the Mountains - Thomas' Confederate Legion of Cherokee Indians and Mountaineers by Vernon H. Crow. There is also a biography of Thomas available but I am unable to locate my copy right now.

Thomas was an interesting guy. His father drowned before he was born and he filled the void by becoming close to members of the Cherokee tribe who lived close by. He is the person who acquired, for the Cherokee, most of the land which now makes up the Qualla Boundary which, while it is frequently referred to as a reservation, is actually owned by the Eastern Band. He was adopted into the tribe and declared to be a chief of the tribe at one point, making him the only white chief of the Cherokee and perhaps of any Native-American tribe. Thomas also owned and operated retail stores supplying goods to the Cherokee as well as the white settlers. Without Thomas' actions it is doubtful that the Eastern Band would be what it is today. Thomas later acted as its power of attorney during the establishment of the Qualla Boundary. Thomas was a relative of President Zachary Taylor through his mother. He also served in the NC legislature prior to the war. During the war his activity was mainly in western NC and eastern TN. His was one of the last commands to surrender at the end. After the war he gradually went insane - probably Alzheimer's because he was lucid some times.

Our family is connected to W. H. Thomas through our daughter-in-law, who is also 1/8 Cherokee and our grandson. They are direct descendants of Thomas.

 

[MacRob46]

Ditto that, satx. One thing: I've managed to decipher all your abbreviations but I still can't get one; the DY's.

What, please, are DY's?

EDIT: Could it possibly mean Damn Yankees?

In the South, damyankees is one word and signifies yankees who have come south and won't leave! Actually my best friend is a native of Flushing, the Queens, NY so I am no longer a rabid yankee hater. That is true for most southerners today.

 

[satx78247]

Only the south-HATERS today are identified as "damn yankees" in Dixie, especially those that continue to defend the thousands of intentional atrocities committed against helpless/unarmed women, children & our POWs & make comments like, "They got precisely what they so richly deserved. Southerners were and are still no better than the Nazi regime's SS.", to quote one professor at UM.
(Four soldier boys from my family were slaughtered at Point Lookout DEATH CAMP in MD, just because they were NOT "white people". - Their names are inscribed on the base of the memorial there & were Privates in the 23rd NC Infantry.)

yours, satx

 

[brubincam]

Look up CONFEDERAT INDIANS on YOU TUBE--very good documentary

 

[steve free]

Thanks for all of the info. Thomas was a very interesting man. :thumbsup: