Casting Round Balls..............

[deerstalkert]

i have a .313 6 cavity. and a .30 double. shoot them in different barrels of course.
the .32 shoots the .313's the very same with or without sprues. i tumbled a couple hundred to see if it made a difference and when they were gone i quit because there was no noticable difference. BUT, that was just with my gun. just try them when you can and see if there is a difference in your gun.

 

[Ohio Rusty]

Those round ball look perfectly fine. If you get a wrinkle, just throw it back in the pot or shoot it down range.. The most important thing is to weigh those ball !!. If any of them are lighter than the expected weight, you may have a void or bubble inside the ball from trapped air when the sprue cooled. Have you ever seen one of those trick cue balls when hit on a pool table, they wobble around and never roll straight because one side is made heavier? That could happen with a round ball where the bubble or void is off on one side and the ball doesn't spin or shoot true.
How you can stop that is when pouring the ball .... keep pouring molten lead into the sprue hole letting the excess lead run off into the pot below. That keeps the sprue molten longer letting any trapped bubbles up and out of the ball. You have seen when the sprue hardens, it wants to shrink and suck in air into the ball. A molten sprue longer prevents that.
Years ago there was a testing by two muzzleloader shooters who called themselved Bevel Up and Bevel Down. They proved keeping the sprue molten for a longer period of time helped get the voids/bubbles out of a round ball. One of the list members here may have a printout of their studies.
Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[Ohio Rusty]

Pure Lead Ball Weight Per Caliber
.310 = 45 grains
.315 = 47 grains
.321 = 50 grains
.350 = 65 grains
.360 = 71 grains
.375 = 80 grains
.395 = 92 grains
.400 = 96 grains
.433 = 122 grains
.437 = 127 grains
.440 = 128 grains
.445 = 133 grains
.451 = 138 grains
.454 = 141 grains
.457 = 144 grains
.490 = 177 grains
.498 = 180 grains
.520 = 212 grains
.530 = 224 grains
.535 = 231 grains
.543 = 241 grains
.550 = 251 grains
.560 = 260 grains
.562 = 276 grains
.570 = 279 grains
.575 = 286 grains
.595 = 317 grains
.600 = 325 grains
.610 = 342 grains
.648 = 410 grains
.662 = 437 grains
.678 = 469 grains
.680 = 473 grains
.690 = 495 grains
.715 = 550 grains
.730 = 586 grains
.735 = 598 grains
.760 = 661 grains
.775 = 700 grains
.835 = 875 grains
.919 = 1167 grains
1.052 = 1750 grains

Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[aussie pete]

I will preface this by stating that I've casted many Maxi Balls and unmentionables. I found those to be fairly up front to work with. Just the usual steps in ascertaining things are correct.

Yesterday I received a .311 Lee two cavity mold. Even though I know the proper procedures I still followed the directions. Cleaned the cavities with carburetor cleaner, smoked the cavities, lubed as directed. Same as with my other Lee molds.

Next was the actually casting. Despite the temperature of the lead and mold being sufficient, I kept getting wrinkles in the balls. The rear cavity was worse than the front cavity. I smoked the cavities more but to no avail. So, I stopped the process and investigated. Now since I have never casted RB, I do not know if this was correct, but I noticed the sprue plate holes were not completely centered over the holes in the mold block. There was a small but noticeable ring around the left side of the mold block that the lead had to try to go around when pouring through the sprue plate.

After some study on this I decided what the heck. So I went back, cleaned the mold cavities again but this time I used some OOO steel wool with the carb cleaner. Then I opened the top of the sprue holes just a tad. That's all it needed. Reheated the pot and mold then tried it again. After the first few, the wrinkles are gone and the balls look good. I weighed many balls and they are very close in deviation. On average, there's about a .3 grains spread. They are suppose to weigh 45 grains but these are averaging 44.7 grains.

So this brings me to some questions.

1. Are the holes in the sprue plate suppose to be off center of the holes in the mold block?

2. I have never had to deal with sprues on a RB. Some are a little bigger than others but most are very close. Not a competition shooter, just a hunter. Will this make a difference in accuracy on such small dia RB?

3. I don't like the idea of a sprue to begin with on a RB, so is there an easy way to get rid of them?

Yep. What Uncle Miltie said. Don't smoke those babies. They'll attract smoke soot, it builds it up in layers - then, all that soot fills aspects of the mold, so when you cast you reproduce the defects provided by all that lovely soot! Get the mold hot like you already know how to, and wonderful shiny balls will be dropping on your wife's best tea towel. With the sprues, Lee uses what they call a tangential (spelling?) sprue cutter (plate), leaving very little sprue behind. When you load them, just load them sprue up, or you could do as our shoot captain does - he places about fifty balls into an old army sock, holds the end shut and tips them back and forth for a couple of minutes knocking them all into perfect round shapes, no sprue mark remaining. I did that for a little while until testing proved that sprue up was just as accurate in my rifles. Why play with your balls when they work as they were made. Now, there's a line I didn't think I would type today, ETipp!

Pete

 

[Togo]

Yep. What Uncle Miltie said. Don't smoke those babies. They'll attract smoke soot, it builds it up in layers - then, all that soot fills aspects of the mold, so when you cast you reproduce the defects provided by all that lovely soot! Get the mold hot like you already know how to, and wonderful shiny balls will be dropping on your wife's best tea towel. With the sprues, Lee uses what they call a tangential (spelling?) sprue cutter (plate), leaving very little sprue behind. When you load them, just load them sprue up, or you could do as our shoot captain does - he places about fifty balls into an old army sock, holds the end shut and tips them back and forth for a couple of minutes knocking them all into perfect round shapes, no sprue mark remaining. I did that for a little while until testing proved that sprue up was just as accurate in my rifles. Why play with your balls when they work as they were made. Now, there's a line I didn't think I would type today, ETipp!

Pete

Exactly!

 

[#blackpowderbill]

Things that waste time.

Tumbling balls to remove the sprew.
Weighing balls ( unless you mixed up you soft lead/hard ingots.
Cutting every 25th ball in half to look for that void

 

[maillemaker]

Have you ever poured any .311 RB with a Lee Mold?

Not all of the RB have the same size sprue. Some are shorter, some taller. I do not know for sure why that is. All I know for sure at this time is I have weighed out a few that are identical in weight. The rest are very close in weight. I plan on testing those RB tomorrow. Hopefully the range lead will work out okay. If not, then I doubt I will order any pure lead as it will most likely be too spendy after shipping. About the only time I shoot, other than testing, is when hunting.

I cast .31 something for making buck-and-ball cartridges. The sprue hole is nearly as big as the shot! But that's because it's such a tiny ball.

 

[akroguy]

Somewhat off topic but on the same general theme, I have a Lee .530 RB mold that throws .535 balls. I could not get a ball started into a .54 Colerain barrel on a recent build and could not figure out What? was going on. (Was at the range, no measuring equipment handy.). Mic'd the balls at home later and sure enough, .535 being thrown from my .530 mold. I'm not sure if this is a one-off issue or something to be verified with every Lee mold from here on out. Just FYI.

Oh, and the sprue means nothing. Put on top at the muzzle and carry on. And wrinkled balls are part of getting old. Just sayin'.

 

[ETipp]

Okay. Did some testing this morning.

Testing was from 25 yards.

All casted RB were the same weight of 44.7 grains.

Same powder charge of 20.0 grains of FFF BP.

Same patch material .015 ticking.

Shot some that were tumbled down so only a tad of the sprue was showing.

Shot some casted as is with the taller sprue.

Shot some Hornady .310 swaged, 45 grain.

Then I tried some .018 ticking.

I detected no appreciable difference in accuracy between the .311 cast RB and Hornady .310 swaged. Sprue mattered not.

The tumbled RB were done so by putting them into an old military sock (Aussie Pete). Due to the somewhat harder range lead, there was still a little bit of sprue remaining. I'm sure I can remove all the sprue by using this poor boy tumbling method with a little more time and perhaps more RB in the sock If I so desire.

One thing that I found out real quick like is the sprue on this tiny .311 RB is not for this ole boy. Its simply too small of a ball and too small of a sprue to fiddle with indoors when reloading. I cannot imagine how much more frustrating reloading would be in the darker hardwoods, in low light conditions, on a steep hillside. So either the sprue gets tumbled down completely or I use swaged RB only.

 

[deweylandrum]

I have several Lee molds and have never had the problem you described. Being primarily a competition shooter I don't like multi cavity molds or commercially made balls because they are made with multi cavity molds. too much variation with multi cavity molds and the more cavities the more variation you have. I don't want to be weighing and measuring the balls so everything I shoot are made in single cavity molds. that way I just visually inspect the balls if they are wrinkled or have a hole in the sprue they go back in the pot. Never had a problem with the sprue especially on lee molds which leave very little compared to some other molds I have and I have shot more thousands of balls than I would even estimate. If you are primarily a hunter I wouldn't worry about the variation in the balls, yes it can affect the accuracy some but it isn't like match shooting where you want your groups as tight as possible because you could be looking at a s

Exactly!

Yep. What Uncle Miltie said. Don't smoke those babies. They'll attract smoke soot, it builds it up in layers - then, all that soot fills aspects of the mold, so when you cast you reproduce the defects provided by all that lovely soot! Get the mold hot like you already know how to, and wonderful shiny balls will be dropping on your wife's best tea towel. With the sprues, Lee uses what they call a tangential (spelling?) sprue cutter (plate), leaving very little sprue behind. When you load them, just load them sprue up, or you could do as our shoot captain does - he places about fifty balls into an old army sock, holds the end shut and tips them back and forth for a couple of minutes knocking them all into perfect round shapes, no sprue mark remaining. I did that for a little while until testing proved that sprue up was just as accurate in my rifles. Why play with your balls when they work as they were made. Now, there's a line I didn't think I would type today, ETipp!

Pete

and wonderful shiny balls will be dropping on your wife's best tea towel.

Glad to see I'm not the only one getting in trouble for putting hot lead on the wife's towels!

 

[ETipp]

Carb and choke cleaner has lubricating oil in it, not the best for cleaning moulds. That said, the oil will be burned out quickly and if you're still having wrinkles it's because the mould is too cold and the lead is freezing in mid-splash as it fills, leaving voids on the sides. Lining up the holes better only served to band-aid the issue because it allows the mould to fill faster. .32s are tiny and you have to cast very fast and furious with a corner-dip preheat to keep the blocks hot enough to yield good balls.

Those sprues are a bit high, higher than my Lee .311, and will not tumble away so don't do that with these particular ones. It's no problem if you just load them sprue up and fuggitaboutit.

A hot mould is a happy mould and you get a hot mould by casting fast and pouring a generous sprue puddle. Skip the soot in the cavities, all it does is plug up vent lines and make undersized balls, so clean all that stuff off and use the faintest dab of synthetic two-stroke engine oil on a Q-tip to keep the underside of the sprue plate and pivot screw lubricated, reapply every 10-20 pours. Also, if you cut the sprues with a gloved thumb, pressing down as well as away to keep the plate from riding up over the bumps as it cuts, you will have the shortest possible sprue.

I don't know about the kind of carburetor cleaner you use but the stuff I use doesn't have any oil in it. Its for removing any oil, grease or grime. Methanol, Acetone, and Toluleen. That is unless Toluleen has oil in it.

The instructions state to smoke the cavities prior to the first few times of use. After a while it will no longer be necessary.

I actually had the mold and lead hotter on the first batch than on the last batch. I casted a lot of RB and the wrinkles would not go away. Preheated the mold. The front cavity would cast some fairly nice balls but the rear cavity would not. After I opened up the passage way to where the hole was centered, as well as used more carb cleaner and steel wool, then it started casting good RB. Wrinkles gone.

Agreed with the work faster when casting .311 RB. It definitely helps to do so but its still finicky when compared to larger projectile molds.

I will give the two stroke oil a try.

 

[pacanis]

You could be like me and forget about the order placed for a 10 pack of Hornady .32 balls and place another order a couple days later

 

[ETipp]

So I think I may have found an alternative solution. Been thinking about one of these for a while now but just didn't want to do it. However, this may very well work out for the tiny .311 ball and sprue conundrum.

A bullet board, AKA loading block. Should be easy enough to load up the block at home for the days hunt.

 

[longcruise]

A bullet board, AKA loading block. Should be easy enough to load up the block at home for the days hunt

A loading block will definitely help. It's always in my bag during any hunt. When you make it use a board thick enough so the patch can be cut with the ball about 1/8" below the surface and still not extending beyond the surface of the bottom side. Keeps the patch clean.

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

clean with acetone.

do not smoke.

preheat mold on hotplate

heat lead until theres a slight blue sheen on top, then pull the temp back a little

start casting.

put all your ball in one pile until you stop seeing wrinkles.

start another pile and cast until completion.

 

[longcruise]

The Lee instructions tell you to dip a corner of the mold in your hot lead to heat it up. Hold the blocks tightly together while dipping it. Check it every few minutes until the lead doesn't stick to the mold. Then dip the other corner the same way. Don't immerse the joint between the blocks.

This takes less than a minute. If your mold is clean and oil free the balls are nearly always perfect from the first drop.

 

[Nazgul58]

Ok, I am sorry, this is not rocket science. We all have our own way way of casting.

Seriously, heat the mold, SMOKE it lightly as the instructions say. Lee knows what they are doing!!

For crying out loud, they used to do this over a campfire in the woods with a bag mold and dull knife.

Man, pages of details.

Don

 

[Nazgul58]

I have cast 100,000's of bullets from 1" diameter to .22. Tens of thousands of RB's.

It is EASY.

Sorry, people spend more time pee'ing over this than they do casting and shooting.

Don

 

[IanH]

SMOKE it lightly as the instructions say. Lee knows what they are doing!!

Lee used to say lube it with beeswax and nothing about preheating. They come along way reading the internet!! One day they might even catch up with a few of the people who actually DO know how to use their moulds to good effect.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Somewhat off topic but on the same general theme, I have a Lee .530 RB mold that throws .535 balls. I could not get a ball started into a .54 Colerain barrel on a recent build and could not figure out What? was going on. (Was at the range, no measuring equipment handy.). Mic'd the balls at home later and sure enough, .535 being thrown from my .530 mold. I'm not sure if this is a one-off issue or something to be verified with every Lee mold from here on out. Just FYI.

Oh, and the sprue means nothing. Put on top at the muzzle and carry on. And wrinkled balls are part of getting old. Just sayin'.

Back in 1979 or 80 I built a 45 caliber flintlock with a Douglas barrel. I ordered a .440 or .445 Lee mold, I don't remember which. Anyway, that Douglas barrel was so hard to load even with a thin patch that it sat in the closet for 40 years. This was before I had even heard of a caliper, let alone a micrometer. Well, many years later I miked some balls out of that mold and they were .451. The mold had been mismarked at the factory. I'm glad I kept the rifle since it shoots .440's just fine.