Black Mz vs Blue Mz

[Rokon]

whoa!! Colorado Clyde has piqued my interest with his comments about the Black MZ MSDS referring to Potassium Perchorlate rather than citric acid.

ALLIANT has just introduced BLUE MZ, 50 gr. volume
equivalent pellets. The factory packaging does not refer to the non-corrosive qualities of BLUE MZ nor to its clean-up.

Potassium perchlorate is a very corrosive factor for us folks used to Black MZ

Has Black MZ been converted to Potassium perchlorate from a bland citric acid formula or do we now have 2 formulations for MZ???

 

[Grenadier1758]

My concern would be the use of pellets. It is far better to use a measured powder charge than to opt for a pellet that may be hard to ignite with a standard percussion cap.

My personal choice is black powder, but if only synthetic powders are available in your area, then avoid the pellets.

 

[Okie Hog]

Black MZ has always contained potassium perchlorate.

With the exception of BH 209; all the currently manufactured black powder substitutes contain potassium perchlorate.

MSDS for Pyrodex, White Hots, and Triple Seven:
http://www.hodgdon.com/msds.html
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=6296.msg48462#msg48462

 

[Zonie]

Okie Hog is correct.

Black MZ contains 50±10 percent Potassium Nitrate and 30±10 percent Potassium Perchlorate. (Safety Data Sheets don't list stuff that is not dangerous which explains the missing 20±10 percent. Possibly the citric acid?).
http://www.alliantpowder.com/downloads/sds/Black_MZ.pdf

The new Blue MZ contains 20 percent Sodium Benzoate, 5 percent Dextrin, 50 percent Potassium Nitrate and 25 percent Potassium Perchlorate.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/downloads/sds/BlueMZ_SDS.pdf

The Black MZ is touted as a powder that doesn't leave corrosive fouling. The Blue MZ makes no such claims and stresses how easy it is to clean with water.

When comparing Pyrodex and 777 powders, both use Potassium Perchlorate as an oxidizer.
Pyrodex is known to leave corrosive fouling. 777, based on what our members say, does not.

Pyrodex contains sulfur. 777 does not which leads me to think it is the sulfur that creates the corrosive salts in the Pyrodex fouling.

I have no idea what appearently makes Blue MX fouling corrosive.

That said, IMO, all guns that shoot muzzleloading powder must be cleaned as soon as possible after they are fired.

Oh. I noticed Alliant stresses that modern hot primers should be used with Blue MX.

That and the fact that it is only available in pellets rules it out around my house. :grin:

 

[coloradoclyde]

I love when I say something that makes someone think.... :grin:

Haven't heard about "Blue MZ".. :idunno:
Sounds like 777 without the toxic Dicyanodiamide.

 

[Okie Hog]

That said, IMO, all guns that shoot muzzleloading powder must be cleaned as soon as possible after they are fired.

Exactly!!!!

The potassium perchlorate causes very fine, almost invisible, pitting. It looks like the bore has lost its shiny appearance.

That fine pitting is very bad. It causes the fouling to stick to the bore; making the rifle hard to load and clean.

The rear two and one-half inches of the bore of one my guns is pitted from simply being loaded for about six months with Pinnacle powder. The rest of the bore is pristine.

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

black mz, blue mz, jim shockeys gold - ALL are made by American Pioneer Powder.

They all shoot clean and do in fact attract less moisture than say pyrodex or goex, but in the end, clean and care for them when you are finished playing.

 

[Rokon]

FML--How did you determine that American Pioneer Powder makes Alliant's Black and Blue MZ powders?

 

[Okie Hog]

It says so on the can.

Alliant Powder had advertised a black powder substitute that was being made by MDM. Then the plant blew and burned up, killing two workers. The owner was subsequently sentenced to two ten year terms in federal prison for serious safety violations. That was the end of MDM and the powder business.

Alliant quickly made a deal with APP.

 

[Rokon]

Okie--I remember MDM. Alliant still thinks that was the best of the best substitute.

I looked at my cans--no reference to APP. Are you going by the U.S. patent number?

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

i had pics and other info but because they were web linked they were removed.

Call Alliant and ask them if you do not believe us.

There are many articles explaining why Alliant went with APP. Simply put, MDM blew up and had to surrender their license.

Black MZ is the same thing as jim shockeys gold (american pioneer) and it simply gets more screening.

I personally get better velocity strings with JSG than I did with Black MZ, but I'd certainly have to test it again to give a for certain answer of if its consistent or not.

 

[Okie Hog]

Yep, they can say all kinds of great stuff about the powder that never was.

The MDM powder that Alliant had advertised was a variation of Black Mag 3. i had tested Black Mag 3. It was never generally available and varied greatly in quality. i also know the explosives safety professional who tried to advise MDM, to no avail.

Craig Sanborn, owner of the Black Mag 3 powder plant and MDM refused to comply with regulations pertaining to work place safety in general and the manufacture and storage of his product in particular. His plant was co-located in a huge building that had other occupants, including a church.

i can't understand how Sanborn kept his BATFE explosive manufacturing permit as long as he did.

Hundreds of pounds of powder was stored in that building.

Early in 2010 a worker was seriously injured in that plant. The injury was not reported to OSHA. Then the plant blew up and burned up killing two workers.

https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=25179

 

[Okie Hog]

The last cans of Black MZ i obtained have this: "Made in the USA for Alliant Powder".