Becoming a Gunmaker?

[jmanderson1]

Thank you for the honest input, it's what I was looking for. I was far from optimistic about the possibility as it were haha. I am not riding on the dream of becoming a gun-maker, I thought it would be a nice fallback though. I have other pursuits that have proven to work out for me though if nothing else works out (auctions/antiques, and other trades that I am good in).

And I am not a ranger for the National Park Service, I am a ranger for the Forest Service, and I am under the "rank" of FPO (Forest Protection Officer). I do not carry a firearm when on regular duty, as I work in developed and front/backcountry areas.. only wilderness rangers get to carry firearms whilst an FPO. In order to become qualified to carry a firearm, I will need to attend FLETC, which I will be doing this fall coming up. Only after graduating from FLETC can someone carry a firearm on regular duty in either the Forest Service, BLM, USFWS, or NPS.

 

[jmanderson1]

Indeed, I understand completely. There's a reason I didn't go to a trade school for a cert instead of going into a regular university I didn't think it was an attainable goal, and it seems I was correct. As stated in a previous post, I was looking for a possible fallback, and the possibility of doing something that didn't require a PhD. in two fields to accomplish, as that is my current (more attainable) plan. Evermore, I am quite aware of the dexterity of such a feat, and with me being a realist, I am far from riding on striking it big in the flintlock marker haha.

That being said, I love the history of gunmaking by traditional means, and at least I can read about the trade. Perhaps in another lifetime.

 

[Dane]

Fred,
Allen Martin is another one. Three weeks from the day I said "go", I got photos of a completely, beautifully and artistically carved gun in the white.
In my possession three weeks later. No doubt working on another one or two while the finish is drying.
Not many people can duplicate this quality and detail in that amount of time.
These are the talented people that can make gun building a full time career.
The "Busty Brunette" is a work of art!!!

 

[Crewdawg445]

:thumbsup:

Very neat gig you have with them indeed.

Whatever you decide, definitely make sure you dot your I's and cross them T's. This website is filled with very knowledgeable folks with years of experience. We all are scattered throughout the world, however we all have one important thing in common and that's the love for keeping traditional muzzleloading alive. It's a small knit community, so stick around and learn with us all!

 

[rich pierce]

(Not in direct response to Dane, but to the original poster)

I'd say you should figure out if you love gunbuilding and if you are a naturally gifted craftsman and artist. Do you have an eye for good work? Do you know the work of today's top makers? If you know great work when you see it, and have enough of an eye that you can predict who among the top builders built that rifle, that is a start. Understanding what makes a great rifle great is essential. And it does not necessarily mean "fancy". See Mike Brooks' work to see what I mean.

Whose work do you admire?

If you would like a list of top current makers, to learn what great work looks like, see names mentioned above or ask here or in a PM.

I'd also ask successful makers the ages of their clients. If it's over 40, then it's unlikely that demand will hold or grow in the future.

 

[Artificer]

Rich,

You are one of the folks I really look forward to seeing their names on a post and I know I will enjoy reading it. So it is indeed a rare occurrence when I don't agree with you on something.

In my experience with custom guns both ML and Modern, the majority of customers are over at least 35, if not 40, though of course there are rare exceptions. The reason most often is even for those who have enough disposable income to buy or have the work done at younger ages, they usually spend the money on something else like their families, homes, furniture, etc., etc. until they reach this age bracket.

Gus

 

[Cowboy]

Wow! That sure is a thing of beauty!

Hard to believe that someone could produce such fine detail and so quick too!

Respectfully, Cowboy :thumbsup:

 

[44-henry]

There is nothing wrong with pursuing a degree in those areas, but if you are asking the question I wonder if you wouldn't be better suited to another profession. As a University Professor I often see students pursuing one line or another that they really aren't well suited for and many times they end up saddled with a mound of student debt that is difficult to pay back with the degrees they find themselves getting in the end.

My suggestion would be to pursue a an engineering technology type degree (very different than a traditional ME degree) that will give you a lot of hands on experience working in lab settings. At the end of such a program you will have a very useful degree that is diverse enough to get you into a lot of different jobs, most of which will pay a very livable starting wage (much higher than the vast majority of other degrees you might find) and more importantly you will have the resources to start doing this work on a hobby after hours and can decide from there whether to pursue it as a full time occupation. Also wouldn't hurt to find and marry that special soulmate (preferably near the end of your program of study) and have an extra source of income coming in that can help take the edge off of such a move down the road. Course marriage, kids, work, and life in general will put a damper on some of your aspirations for awhile, but it is all worth it in the end.

 

[don hepler]

There are "Guns" and then there are Guns that are a work of art. I can buy a barrel, lock, barrel, and stock and build a gun. I won't make much on it, because I'm not an artist.

Flintlocks that fetch thousands of dollars, are due mostly for the art work. Relief carving and engraving, is part God given talent and practice, patients, and learning.

I can draw, but I don't have the patients and skill to transfer it to a rifle. Thus, my guns are plain and rely on the natural beauty of the wood to make them nice, but simple. With the materials and labor, I wouldn't make a dime.

To make it big, you must be an artist, carver, engraver, wood worker and metal worker.

 

[garra]

If you really want to see the target audience look at the ages of the folks on this forum, bet the average is over 50.

 

[Dane]

Hadden,

Even more important than fancy carving, inlays, etc., is architecture. The properly executed design and profile are the most important design element to that "perfect" gun.
A well done barn gun, or "schimmel", is still a work of art.

 

[rich pierce]

Gus, I always look for your posts as well. Would be great to get together sometime. I agree in part that middle aged folks can often have more disposable income after the kids are out of college. But I do see a lot of young folks spending plenty on hobbies. Jet skis, 4 wheelers, fancy pickup trucks, bicycles etc. I race mountain bikes and there's plenty on the start line that cost the same or more than a custom long rifle. I am sure it is the same with other hobbies.

Don't mean to throw water on the party. When I was 25 years old in 1978 I had to have a custom flintlock. I could not afford it so I built one.

 

[lowcsp]

I would say go for it,I have been doing it full time for the last five years and part time for 8 before that and my business has slowly been growing but in order to do that I had to be able to live on 1500 a month and a few beef cows and some chickens to help feed me an the wife also I have no car, house,or any toy payments and the wife has the heath ins. thou her work ( she lets me do it as long as I keep up my end of the deal and keep the house warm and lit up with wood and solar power)so good luck and start practicing now. what part of wis. you from?

 

[stancarlson62]

Great advice if you love your math. That's what I'm doing. But if your majoring in psychology and philosophy then math is probably not your favorite.

As I understand most get into it as a hobby then after many years of developing skills they turn it into a full time job.

 

[54ball]

Thus is life. When you know the least you are called on to make the decisions that matter the most.
My father was a career railroad man, the last of the breed, real railroad men. When he started the steam era men were reaching retirement. It was different, a real company with a real identity, not a faceless corporation. The supervisors were taken from the best and brightest. These men had worked their way up and knew how to run a railroad and how it worked. Then buyouts and a change, the computer age. Corporations cared little about how to really run a railroad. They are more concerned with the college club and how stuff looks on paper. Instead of men who came through the ranks and actually know the job, now a college degree is what makes a supervisor and they care not about the consequences. My father with a high school education had to show supervisors how the stuff actually worked. He has had to redraw blueprints because they simply would not work. The corporation cares little about developing men through the ranks. It's all about the degree. It matters not that the man with the degree is an idiot. It matters not that a bright man without it may actually know more and be better qualified. It's all about the degree. That's just how things are now.

On a somewhat related note my father met a hobo in Kentucky that was an Ivy League PHD. He raised a family, lived the "good life" and one day literally caught a freight and left it all. He lived in a tar paper and cross tie shanty with degrees tacked to the ties. Now this sounds romantic and all but still the guy lives in a tar paper shack or maybe under a bridge somewhere eating out of garbage cans...

This is my point. Legitimate or not a college degree buys you instant respect or at least unlocks doors otherwise closed. While there is romance of hitting the rails or living the simple life like 1840 the reality is much much different.

My advice finish college that is your priority if you are financially able. Research what it takes and take subjects that would qualify you to work at or in the federal park system, archaeology, architecture, history ect ect ect that way you could live the life while still living the life.
I hope that made sense.

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

As I understand most get into it as a hobby then after many years of developing skills they turn it into a full time job.

I have heard as many different stories for how gun builders went pro as there are gun builders.

The kicker from what I understand is that you could spend a tremendous amount of time training, schooling, and practicing to refine your skills and just not have "the natural eye for it" to get you over the hump and into pro-land. :idunno: ...That, and the vow of poverty I hear that you are obligated to take. :idunno:


I never understood how some people could imagine being a pro as living the simple life? I am no pro, but building for me is somewhere short of getting into a car accident as far as stress goes, and I don't have the added stress of running a business.

 

[Vaino]

There's a few reasons why there are so few full time MLing gun makers....the foremost reasons are the skills, aptitude and artistic talent that are needed in abundance. Another reason is the limited market for MLers....there just aren't that many people who are interested to support more full time gunmakers.

In addition to the above.... sometimes gunmaking is a "do it yourself" endeavor due to the many kits and parts sets available and this "cuts" into the demand.

Also, there are all sorts of hobby builders of varying skills who compete w/ full time builders and thereby lessen demand.

So the predictable result is very few, extremely skilled and highly artistic full time builders who have developed outstanding reputations and their highly sought after MLers are evidenced by their long lead times. Yes...Allen Martin is one of these few builders who has all the qualifications to compete in this very limited market.

Can't really know for sure from my personal experience building MLers, but often wondered just how long a workday these "in demand", full time builders put in and how many actual hours to build a MLer and the resultant per hour wage.

At one time early on and after completing 3 yrs of pre-med and after 2 yrs in the Army, thought about attending a gunsmith school under the GI Bill. But after a thorough discussion w/ myself, came to the conclusion that there wasn't a whole lot of money to made building and fixing guns, so entered a 5 yr tool and diemaker apprenticeship which satisfied my requirements as to wages and time off. Never regretted my choice....Fred

 

[Rifleman1776]

Anyone here know of an ml builder who, depending on his building for income, is in the high tax brackets? Methinks not. One of the most skilled builders I have known lived in virtual poverty and near the end depended on help from friends to survive. Artistic skills and good business sense do not seem to be found in one individual very often.

 

[kaintuck]

ahhh....the dreams of a teenager~~~ :grin: :rotf:
FACTS: right now, 40K a year is the least you can live on, and even MORE is needed in east/west coast.
Unless you want to live in the lower end of life~and you stay single, drive a used car, have no dental/medical issues EVER and like plain food~ NO pets, and small housing......and your girl works somewhere making HER income.....better 'hit it n get it NOW"....
Change your major to nursing, physician, pharmacy, etc and you get a 100K job, now you can have a nice house, hobbies, vacations, and a girl~~~~ :hmm:

sorry to burst bubbles........but living in the woods, eating berries and wearing a toesack sounds fun, try it for a year, as when your young, you can live on cheese sandwiches and noodles...........when you get my age, that ain't so fun......

marc n tomtom

 

[Vaino]

Timely and well put.....Fred