Accuracy Issues Due to Wedge Pins?

[Roguedog]

My questions is have any of you ever had your accuracy or point of impact change due to messing with your wedge pins? The reason for my questions is that on my Lyman GPR, when I get one wedge pin right, it makes the other loose and vice versa. I have tried bending the wedge pins to varying degrees but I still can't get them right. As a result, I started putting little strips of cardboard underneath the barrel to tighten up the fit. For those of you who have done something similar, has it ever affected your accuracy? When one day I'm shooting well and the next day I'm not, I try to look at the variable that are different between those two sessions. This was one variable and I was curious as to whether it could have an effect on where your bullets print.

Jeff

 

[Rifleman1776]

Somewhere around 1970 my TC 'hawken' was loose in the stock. I put a couple thin strips of leather in the bottom. Still there to this day. But, note, you do not want things too tightly fixed, there must be some play. True with all guns.

 

[yakimaman]

I gently peened the bbl underlugs (making the slot just a bit tighter) and it worked just fine for me.

 

[matt denison]

I gently peened the bbl underlugs (making the slot just a bit tighter) and it worked just fine for me.

This is the correct way to tighten up the wedges. If you bend them instead then you take the chance that they will come out the opposite side high or low and take out the escution plate with it. No problem using shims either (cardboard or leather or..?) But I do reccomend that you not bend the wedges.

As for your question IMHO yes, if the barrel isn't being held firmly where it was when sighting and moves under recoil when the trigger is pulled then absolutely it will affect where the bullet hits vs. where you were aiming.

 

[Billnpatti]

Wedge pins should be just tight enough for you to be able to push them out with a screwdriver or wedge tool. If they are loose enough for you to be able to catch you thumbnail behind the head of the wedge and pull it out, it is too loose. On the other hand, if it takes more than just a good press with the end of a screwdriver or wedge tool to start it out , it is too tight. I do not recommend bending your wedge to tighten it because when you are putting it back in, it is too easy to put it in upside down and have it fall out. The best way to tighten your wedge pin is to remove your barrel from the stock and place it on a solid but non-marring surface such as a blanket spread out on your working bench. Turn it upside down and place blocks under the blanket to support your barrel and raise it up so the sights are not against the bench top where they can be damaged or moved. Then with the barrel positioned on the blocks under the blanket, use a ball peen hammer to lightly hammer on the wedge pin lugs to very slightly bend them down. it onely takes a tiny bit to tighten your wedge pin. Return your barrel to the stock and replace the wedge pins to see if you have tightened it enough. It is a tap and try process but don't rush it and try whanging on the lugs or you can over bend then and it is harder to open up a lug than it is to tighten it. Tap and try, tap and try until you have it just right. After that, you need to look elsewhere for any accuracy problems. I don't know if I have ever mentioned Dutch Schoultz' Black Powder Accuracy System or not :wink: but it where you want to spend your next $20 on muzzleloading. I can't over emphasize the value of the information in his system. Buy it, do exactly what he tells you and you will be amazed. It ain't magic but you may think it is. http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

 

[necchi]

Yes, wedge pins that don't fit proper will change the position of the barrel randomly effecting accuracy.

yakimaman, laffindog and especially Billnpatti have given good advice.
Pictures can help, use the hammer gently.

If you go too far a large screwdriver will open the tennon. Be sure to straighten the bend you put in the wedge pin, you should be able to use either pin in either slot interchangeably.

 

[Roguedog]

Thanks. It sounds like modifing the tenon is the way to go. It will sure be nice to not have to monkey around with the wedge pins anymore.

Jeff

 

[frogwalking]

Keep in mind that a muzzle loader differs greatly from a modern rifle. In a ml, the stock is attached to the barrel on a modern rifle, the barrel is attached to the stock. The ml barrel is relatively massive compared to the wood, so the attachment is not as critical. Not to say it is unimportant, just not so much so.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Yes, wedge pins that don't fit proper will change the position of the barrel randomly effecting accuracy.

yakimaman, laffindog and especially Billnpatti have given good advice.
Pictures can help, use the hammer gently.

If you go too far a large screwdriver will open the tennon. Be sure to straighten the bend you put in the wedge pin, you should be able to use either pin in either slot interchangeably.

Bad advice! Lyman uses two different size wedges, the front and rear have separate part numbers and are dimensionally different.
#22: p/n 6030205 is the front wedge
#22A/n 6030196 is the rear wedge

 

[George T.]

Their manual that is available on line shows how to snug them up.

I had one fall out at a match and accuracy darned sure went south.

After that I snugged both up where they need to be tapped out. The point of impact changed requiring a new front sight.

I have not found rifles with one to be as touchy.

Geo. T.

 

[necchi]

That is interesting indeed, I wonder if there's an actual difference?

Here's the PDF from Lyman describing wedge pin adjustment on page 21.
They describe adjusting the tennon also (barrel lug),, http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/muzzle-loaders/pdfs/lyc-ml-general.pdf

Ah-ha!
Further digging found this PDF for the GPR/GPH and they mention the difference is length. http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/muzzle-loaders/pdfs/lyc-ml-gp.pdf
"*Note: The rear wedge is slightly longer than the front wedge and is installed
closest to the lock. Both wedges are installed from the right to the left. This is
true for right or left-hand rifles."

 

[matt denison]

".... Lyman uses two different size wedges, the front and rear have separate part numbers and are dimensionally different.
#22: p/n 6030205 is the front wedge
#22A/n 6030196 is the rear wedge


That is actually very interesting to know. :hmm: After all these years and fooling with a pile of these guns I never noticed they are different.

 

[nkbj]

I make the wedges fit like I want. Pine 2x4, railroad spike, mallet.

 

[Danny Ross]

The only difference in the wedge pins is the length, one is about a 1/16 of a inch loner. I have to stand them side by side to see which one is longer. If memory serves me correctly the longer one goes in the rear slot. DANNY

 

[necchi]

Does anybody read anymore?

 

[bpd303]

:rotf: Nope

 

[matt denison]

Does anybody read anymore?

I don't own them, I don't have the manual, I only fix 'em for other people. Most that need work are factory built. Go figure. (should have a "scratching your head" icon here)