4F Black Powder Question

[TNGhost]

I just gave one example, I'll give you another.

I once blew the nipple off a gun using 4 ffff, In all fairness though, it probably could have happened with 3fff too.

Ok so you drilled your vent hole too large and overloaded your percussion gun. Says nothing about 4f being "dangerous", only your shooting habits.

Took me by surprise too.

Your inference is incorrect.

 

[Carbon 6]

Ask Lyman, it is their scientific pressure data.

I take published data with a little grain of salt, especial if it doesn't sound right. I have found errors in every book I have ever picked up. I like to cross confirm.
Sometimes the error is the author's, sometimes it's the printer's.

 

[Carbon 6]

Ok so you drilled your vent hole too large and overloaded your percussion gun. Says nothing about 4f being "dangerous", only your shooting habits.

It wasn't too large for the recommended 2ff and the other gun wasn't "overloaded" I suspect the owner cross threaded the nipple.

 

[user 36911]

Nice post, the man made some great contributions to black powder. A bit off topic as I see no reference to the fact that 4f as a main charge is dangerous.

Nice try too, at changing the subject.

I wasn't trying to change the subject. I was backing up a friend who I thought was ragged on for no reason.

Maybe a gun has never blown up from using 4F. We don't really know. Either way, I don't see any good reason to use it. If I want more power and less fouling i'll use Swiss.

 

[TNGhost]

I take published data with a little grain of salt, especial if it doesn't sound right. I have found errors in every book I have ever picked up. I like to cross confirm.
Sometimes the error is the author's, sometimes it's the printer's.

Give 'em a call or write them. I am sure they would be happy to explain it to you.

Perhaps you should think of taking the printed recommendation you cite of 4f being only for pan priming, "with a grain of salt"?

It wasn't too large for the recommended 2ff and the other gun wasn't "overloaded" I suspect the owner cross threaded the nipple.

There you go, that's what relying on printed "recommendations" will get you.

 

[Carbon 6]

Perhaps you should think of taking the printed recommendation you cite of 4f being only for pan priming, "with a grain of salt"?

I thought we had already established that I do.

I just don't think 4ffff has broad ranging applicability as a propellant.

 

[TNGhost]

I wasn't trying to change the subject. I was backing up a friend who I thought was ragged on for no reason.

Maybe a gun has never blown up from using 4F. We don't really know. Either way, I don't see any good reason to use it. If I want more power and less fouling i'll use Swiss.

I was not ragging on your friend. I was simply pointing out that your argument that he somehow posed 4f as dangerous for a main load was not valid, and it was your argument and not his.

Maybe a gun has blown up from 1f, 2f or 3f too.

Funny you should mention Swiss as their 4f can denotes it as a main charge powder while their nullB is their pan powder.

Personally I tend to believe that Schuetzen, GOEX, etc 4f is not much if any more energetic than Swiss 3f, but I have no pressure data to back that up only experience shooting them.

Why is it that Swiss is generally considered quite a bit more energetic than other black powders, grade for grade?

 

[Carbon 6]

Give 'em a call or write them. I am sure they would be happy to explain it to you.

Has it been explained to you ?

 

[TNGhost]

I thought we had already established that I do.

I just don't think 4ffff has broad ranging applicability as a propellant.

Does 1f have a "broad ranging applicability" as a propellant?

 

[TNGhost]

Has it been explained to you ?

Knowing their reputation and attention to detail, I am satisfied with the information on 4f as a main charge as printed in their manual that I own.

 

[user 36911]

I was not ragging on your friend. I was simply pointing out that your argument that he somehow posed 4f as dangerous for a main load was not valid, and it was your argument and not his.

Maybe a gun has blown up from 1f, 2f or 3f too.

Funny you should mention Swiss as their 4f can denotes it as a min charge powder while their nullB is their pan powder.

Personally I tend to believe that Schuetzen, GOEX, etc 4f is not much if any more energetic than Swiss 3f, but I have no pressure data to back that up only experience shooting them.

Why is it that Swiss is generally considered quite a bit more energetic than other black powders, grade for grade?

Swiss is the only company making their own charcoal. They also spend way more time processing the powder. Maybe the real question is why aren't other powders as powerful as Swiss.

In chrono tests Swiss 3F 70gr was equal to Goex 3F 100gr. So, I ask. Why is Goex so weak? However, if you like a soft recoil. Goex is your powder. Swiss has quite a sharp recoil. There's little doubt of it's power when you shoot it.

 

[TNGhost]

Swiss is the only company making their own charcoal. They also spend way more time processing the powder. Maybe the real question is why aren't other powders as powerful as Swiss.

In chrono tests Swiss 3F 70gr was equal to Goex 3F 100gr. So, I ask. Why is Goex so weak? However, if you like a soft recoil. Goex is your powder. Swiss has quite a sharp recoil. There's little doubt of it's power when you shoot it.

So if GOEX is that much weaker, Swiss 3f could easily be as dangerous as GOEX 4f?

Also curious as to what wood they use for charcoal.

 

[Carbon 6]

Does 1f have a "broad ranging applicability" as a propellant?

Rhetorical, but still validates my point.
Thank you.

 

[user 36911]

So if GOEX is that much weaker, Swiss 3f could easily be as dangerous as GOEX 4f?????????????

Yes and Swiss doesn't recommend 3F for larger bore rifles.

 

[Carbon 6]

So if GOEX is that much weaker, Swiss 3f could easily be as dangerous as GOEX 4f?????????????

False parallel.

 

[TNGhost]

Yes and Swiss doesn't recommend 3F for larger bore rifles.

So really what this boils down to, knowing the vast discrepeny in formulation and manufacturing technique from maker to maker is that the "F" rating is as the man says:

 

[TNGhost]

Rhetorical, but still validates my point.
Thank you.

False parallel.

False rhetoric.

 

[user 36911]

So really what this boils down to, knowing the vast discrepeny in formulation and manufacturing technique from maker to maker is that the "F" rating is as the man says:

Yes, if you're going to put your face next to an explosion. You should know about the powder you're using.

I forgot to mention that Swiss has a bit more potassium nitride than Goex. Another reason for it's power.

 

[George]

Actually, Mad Monk (William Knight) is one of the foremost authorities on black powder in the world.

I know that to be a fact because he told me so.

Spence

 

[user 36911]

Cheap shot.