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.45 conical moulds

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adbranaman

40 Cal.
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I've been trying to figure a good conical to shoot out of my .45 Penn. Pedersoli.I shot some R.B. and had so-so luck with them. Then I went to a box of TC maxi-balls 240 gr. They were pretty acurate,BUT they slid down the barrel so easy it just doesn't seem right. I then shot a few 385 gr.HB-HP Great Plains with 85gr. recommended powder charge.I had to push them down pretty hard.I have no idea where they went as I was shooting 50 yd.s,so I figure over the top.I went back to the 240's and was getting a 3"-4 " group at 50 yd.s.For this old man that's not bad,But I'm still wigged about how easy they go down the tube.I find it hard to beleive they get a good groove cut(spin) on the way out.Is this normal? I'd like to know as I'm thinking about buying a mould for them.I remember someone saying they used a 255gr.(TC?) and liked them pretty well.I can't find em around here.,lucky to have found what I did.Everything is .50 now days.So what do you all use?
 
Well, I don't use conical bullets in anything except my .58 rifled muskets and my Schuetzen but I think I can help you with the loose fit you've noticed.

First off, I'll say that they should be a "close slip fit" in your barrel. They shouldn't have much more than a hairs thickness of clearance to the bore. Two hairs thickness max.
Note, this is the clearance to the bore, not to the bottom of the grooves.

When you fire the gun with the bullet sitting on top of the powder charge the laws of Physics take over. As you know, things that are stationary want to stay that way. In other words, they resist movement.
When the powder fires, the rear of the bullet wants to move down the bore, but the front of the bullet does not want to move.
With this little disagreement going on, something has to give, and the part that gives is the middle of the bullet.
It wants to get out of the way, but the only way it can go is outward into the grooves of the bore.
That is exactly what we want it to do.
This enlargement of the bullet is known as obturation. It happens in all guns to all bullets.
In a cartridge gun, much of this obturation is wasted by the bullet swelling inside the mouth of the cartridge case. Thats (IMO) one of the reasons cartridge guns bullets are larger than the groove diameters of the barrels.
With a muzzleloader of course, the bullet does exactly what we want it to do. It grabs the rifleing and it's on it's merry way.

Because obturation is so important in a muzzleloader when shooting a bullet, the lead must be pure, soft lead. Any hardening alloys will reduce the amount of obturation and if this is reduced, the outside of the bullet will not seal tightly in the rifleing grooves.

If you buy a mold, keep that in mind.
IMO, wheel weights, pistol bullet lead, solder, or any other lead alloy will not be accurate, and will leave deposits of lead throughout the length of your barrel because the hardness keeps the bullet from fully swelling.

I mentioned that the clearance between the bullet and bore should not be very much. This is because even with pure lead, the swelling is somewhat limited.
This close clearance requrement will cause problems in a badly fouled bore. That is why the Minie' bullet with it's hollow base was developed.

With military guns they have to be able to load with very badly fouled bores so the bullet to bore clearance must be rather large. So large in fact, that obturation will not work by itself. The hollow base of the Minie' bullet provides a weak, thin area that is blown out into the rifleing grooves by the gas pressure of the exploding powder.

Hope this helps answer your question. :)
 
Obturation.Dang it you've gone and learned me something! Well now I ain't so feared of using them there bullets.No really,Thanks! It answers a lot.The fouling was really bad and they were the only ones I could use.They don't have a skirt though,their flat on the bottom. I guess it don't matter.I think I'll go and buy that last box they got that went from 8.99 to 10.99 when deer season came on.Now to find someone that carries the mould.I know Lee has a 250 mould I'm thinking about.
 
I also have a Pedersoli .45 cal Pens. Try casting the Lee Minie undersized. What works for me is to fill the cavity with bore butter and lube the sides. I weigh mine and the ones that seem to work the best is the 302-3 grn. I'm pushing it with 90-95 grns of 2f. black powder. I can get about 1.5" at 60 yards. The gun is very finiky. If I don't fill the rear cavity with lube my groups go south.

OK all you traditional folks don't read this next part if you don't want to get angry. I wrapped my Lee's with some Teflon tape to get a light snug fit. Wrapped it like a paper patch gullet. Groups got smaller.
 
Food for thought-
I've played with the .45 maxi a bit and believe it or not, TC's are a bit smaller in diameter than the Lyman's. Actually, Lyman does (or did) make at least 2 different size maxies, both larger than the TCs.
I had an older Lyman that the boy "borrowed" and couldn't seem to remember to bring back so I bought a TC on Ebay. Them TCs slid right down and out. Sold it off and got a Lyman. Better but still not like the older one. Gave it to the boy in exchange for my original and all is well.
The difference is only a couple of thousandths but made all the diff. in the world.
 
I was wrong on that 385 gr. Great Plains.That was the other box of 50's I had left over. The 45's were 285's.They were Hornidys.Any way looks like I've got a bit of experimenting to do. The 240 TC's were the most accurate. I think I'm still a bit confused,but less worried about the 240's as I was.I made up a bunch of paper cartridges with the 285's and 85 gr.s of FFg powder. Well try them out this weekend and maybe try some thing else a little different.Let ya know what happens.I've still got pleanty of RB to try at different ranges.I'm using 40 gr.s powder behind them right now.Going to try to bark a squrriel this weekend.
 
My Pens. .45 Pedersoli likes the .490 RB's being pushed by 70-75 grns of 3F. I hear they are even more accurate if you put a wonder wad over the powder then the patched round ball.
 
Bluebuck56 said:
I've been trying to figure a good conical to shoot out of my .45 Penn. Pedersoli.I shot some R.B. and had so-so luck with them. Then I went to a box of TC maxi-balls 240 gr. They were pretty acurate,BUT they slid down the barrel so easy it just doesn't seem right. I then shot a few 385 gr.HB-HP Great Plains with 85gr. recommended powder charge.I had to push them down pretty hard.I have no idea where they went as I was shooting 50 yd.s,so I figure over the top.I went back to the 240's and was getting a 3"-4 " group at 50 yd.s.For this old man that's not bad,But I'm still wigged about how easy they go down the tube.I find it hard to beleive they get a good groove cut(spin) on the way out.Is this normal? I'd like to know as I'm thinking about buying a mould for them.I remember someone saying they used a 255gr.(TC?) and liked them pretty well.I can't find em around here.,lucky to have found what I did.Everything is .50 now days.So what do you all use?

FWIW, TC .45cal/255grn Maxi-Hunters are tack drivers in TC's 1:48" barrels...will eat the center of the target out and are devastating on deer.

Yes, once the rifling punches through the bands they slide down pretty easy...one thing to guard against is trying to force start them with a hand held ramrod as I believe that apoproach 'wallows' the conical around a bit at the muzzle while trying to get it started which spreads the cuts wider, less grip, etc...I believe they should only be started with one quick rap from a short starter to make the cuts clean and as tight as possible.

Based upon what I've read, if I've done any amount of walking to speak off, I'll slide the ramrod down bore to ensure the maxi-hunter is still sitting where it should be...but have to say I've NEVER found that one has moved.

I've shot several deer with the 255grn Maxi-Hunter now, out to 60yds and they all fall within site...an excellent, accurate pill in the .45.
And have posted here before if I could only have one ML rifle, it would be a .45cal x 1:48" twist as it shoots 128grn/.440's and 255grn Maxi-Hunters very accurately , giving a wide range of flexibility for plinking, small game, large game, etc.

My .45cal Deer loads are:

90grns Goex 3F (FFFg)
Oxyoke wonderwad
.018" TC pillow ticking patch
Hornady .440

90grns Goex 2F (FFg)
Oxyoke wonderwad
255grn Maxi-Hunter


My .45cal target / small game load is:

40grns Goex 3F (FFFg)
Oxyoke wonderwad
TC .018" pillow ticking
Hornady .440


(PS: If you can't find the 255grn Maxi-Hunters locally, I bought a ton of ten-packs off an auction last year at half price...had to buy them all to get the low price, have plenty)
 
I went ahead and ordered a mould from Lee. It's the combo .440 RB and the 200 gr. conical. I figured 10.00 bucks more to try the 200 gr.conical as I was going to get the .440 anyway.They had a 250 ,but not with the combo.If I see those 255 TC's I'll pick up a box.
 
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