2F or 3F for 42" BBL. .45?

[Curt LaManna]

I've been using 3F powder and I'm not really impressed with the groups at 50 yrds. Have any of you had better results using felt wads, 2F or any other suggestions?
My problem is getting good time at the local range!
I know I really need to get there and check these things out myself, but thought I'd get a good starting point.
Thank you!

 

[wattlebuster]

I would give the fffg a good chance by going up or down with powder charge before trying the ffg. All the .45s Ive ever been around shot better with fffg but in the same breath ffg did ok in a few of them. Good luck :thumbsup:

 

[David W.]

I would place FFFg first. What patch thickness and lube are you using?

 

[Curt LaManna]

.010" patch on a .445 ball, Crisco melted into patches. I was going to try some .433 ball and a thicker patch, same lube. I need to buy some .440 ball and try them as well. .445 and the .010 patches are hard to load. Too thick and too big of a ball. I have to use a Range Rod. In the field, it would be about useless. Once it's not 110o outside, I'll get a lot more time...
Thank you Gentlemen!

 

[David W.]

.010" patch on a .445 ball, Crisco melted into patches. I was going to try some .433 ball and a thicker patch, same lube. I need to buy some .440 ball and try them as well. .445 and the .010 patches are hard to load. Too thick and too big of a ball. I have to use a Range Rod. In the field, it would be about useless. Once it's not 110o outside, I'll get a lot more time...
Thank you Gentlemen!

I think you should try a .440 ball and a .018 patch with something other than crisco as a lube. A .010 patch may not be making a good seal with deep grooves. For the lube, I would try Ballistol soaked wet patches, or mink oil, jojoba oil (wax), or even spit.

 

[ohio ramrod]

With my 42 inch 45 cal douglas barreled target rifle I notice no difference between 40 grain FFF and 45 grain FF. I use a leather over powder wad and a beeswax and lard lubed .016 patch and .445 ball. :hmm:

 

[Curt LaManna]

I'll try the smaller cal. ball & Ballistol lube, as I carry it in my bag for use with my Smooth Bores. I thought it may be too thick of a combo for the barrel.

 

[roundball]

Agree...I've learned that thicker patches are much better for me based on the following:

They accommodate minor fluctuations in ball diameter better;
They have more material stuffed down into the grooves for a better grip and rotation transfer.
They hold more lube;
They're easier to load;

The only benefit I've ever personally seen using .005" and .010" patches is to experiment with various patch thicknesses during load development...adding .005" and/or .010" patches in various combinations and with other patches.

 

[Leatherbark]

I'll swear that some guns thinks Crisco is a patch burning accelerant. I've noticed that with some greases like Crisco. Especially if the thin patches are soaked with it. Try puttin a little Beeswax in the Crisco and use a thicker patch.............Bob

 

[Curt LaManna]

That's what this is as well. A Douglas Barrel on a
"Golden Age Firearms" built rifle. .440 ball next to order and try out.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I've never has success with patches so thin as .010" out of anything. I consider .016" pillow ticking to be a thin patch and most often go up from there. I'm presently working with a .45 caliber Rice barrel with .445 ball and .016 ticking and doing OK, 1 1/2" for five shots at 50 yards but I'm pretty sure my eyes and open sights account for most of the dispersion. I intend to conduct a test with my .22 shooting groups with a scope and again with open sights to see how they compare. :idunno:

 

[hanshi]

Thicker patches often fix those accuracy problems. I use a .440 ball and .020" patch and am starting testing with a .445 (nominal) ball. 3F has given me great results; never tried 2F in the rifle.

 

[C Barker]

The only benefit I've ever personally seen using .005" and .010" patches is to experiment with various patch thicknesses during load development...adding .005" and/or .010" patches in various combinations and with other patches.

Don't these thinner patches get blown apart? :idunno:

 

[Rifleman1776]

First, to the original poster: I don't believe granualtion size is the culprit in your accuracy problem. A lot of other factors are in play as others have pointed out. e.g. ball size; patch thickness, lube, amount of charge, moon phases, etc. Just keep trying different combos until you hit the mark....literally.

I've never has success with patches so thin as .010"

There was a time, long-long ago, when the quest for the holy grail of muzzle loading was the best very thin patch material. Many of those around me in the ml world thought we had found that miracle cloth with what was known as "airplane cloth". It was used to cover the frames and wings of old style airplanes. Pure cottom, extremly thin and incredibly strong. As a patch it performed very well with shallow groove barrels. Some of those barrels were early TC Hawkens. Even some custom barrels were very shallow cut based on someones theory of what made a good barrel. Paint brush generalities usually have exceptions to the rule. My choice is a larger ball and thinner patch when hunting the elusive wild 'X'.

 

[trent/OH]

I use a leather over powder wad and a beeswax and lard lubed .016 patch and .445 ball.

Tell me more about the leather OP wad. What leather do you use? I guess you could punch those out with a 45 ACP or 45 Colt or 45-70 casing.

 

[Curt LaManna]

I got some range time, early Sunday am, after a rain here, the local temp was 81o at 4:00am. I got to the property by 4:30am and was up and ready to shoot, well before the Sun was beaming through the clouds. After the first few loads, with .010", .015", and .018", all of which were packaged lubed wads, I found the best groups at 50 yards, using the last ones. The powder charge of 40 grns. of 3F, an over powder wad of felt, from my BP Colts, a .018" patch and a .433" RB, the groups were 2" at that range. I didn't have a bench to shoot from, but did fire from my Truck window with a shop towel as a rest under my hand. Easy to load, even with a dirty bore. I was cleaning the bore with Ballistol and running a dry patch afterwards.
I shot about 40 rnds total and couldn't be more satisfied with this rifle.
Next time out, I'll try 2-.010" patches and see how they group, to see whether I need to buy some .020" patches. My guess is that it'll be too snug to load in the field, when Hunting.
It was a good test and an exercise in simplicity, as I brought nothing else that I would have in the field when Hunting. No Range Rod, no extra parts, no other stuff I'd have in the truck or at the Camp. I had my Hunting Pouch, Horn and extra ball, patches, and only stuff, you'd carry in your pouch. I used the tools in the pouch, a Measure and the Rifles Ram Rod.
Jack Rabbits and Cotton Tails, with this load, and next Fall, I'll work up a load for larger game.
Thank you, guys, for all the good ideas and time to give me some starting points.